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RobPro
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 1:44am | IP Logged
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I don't respond well to people saying "I am right, that is all the justification you need." Eric broke the rules down in logical order and answered my questions.
And if you'll note, your interpretation was wrong as well. ;)
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 6:00am | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
I don't respond well to people saying "I am right, that is all the justification you need." Eric broke the rules down in logical order and answered my questions.
And if you'll note, your interpretation was wrong as well. ;)
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Everytime I have sounded off with regards to a card rule, I have studied the cards in question, contacted Verc on most of them to get his input and then posted a response.
As much as I would like to buy the game and have it rise like the phoenix from the ashes, I am too poor to see it come true (Unless we win the Lotto), so I try to help fix some of the more ambiguous rules issues that this game has.
i don't say "I'm right, that's that. I do say "As a Tourney ref and host of the Philly crowd, this is my ruling for people who play here."
Word to your mother.
Peace.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 11:36am | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
I don't respond well to people saying "I am right, that
is all the justification you need." Eric broke the rules down in logical
order and answered my questions.And if you'll note, your interpretation
was wrong as well. ;)
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I don't respond well to people saying "I refuse to consider your position
because I think I'm right and you're wrong". Which is exactly what you
did. If you want to get accusatory, if you want to get to blaming, that's
fine... there's plenty to go around, no less for you than anyone else
here.
Eric's post confirmed the logic of my statement which was that the card
is played to the fleet, and not the volley itself. You didn't even think for
a moment of thinking through the logic of my claim, you simply closed
your mind. Now, I may disagree with whether the card is played to your
own fleet or the opponent's fleet, but at this point that is irrelevant...
the simple fact is that it is played to a fleet, which is what I argued, and
NOT what you argued.
My statement to you was simply a mention of the fact that you HAD
CLOSED YOUR MIND on the topic, rather than think things through and
consider the logic of the arguments involved. That is exactly why I leave
this place at times, because I get sick of that kind of "I'm right and
you're wrong and I don't care what you say" kind of attitude, which then
devolves to a screaming fight. You do it, Wolfie does it, Eric does it, I've
done it... hell, we all do it from time to time. My point is that we ALL
SHOULD MAKE AN EFFORT TO DO IT LESS, myself included.
In the future, don't just say "I'm right and you're not and so I'm not
going to talk to you anymore" kind of childish crap. Swallow your pride
and admit you're wrong from time to time, it's not that hard to do. Hell,
I've had my disagreements with Eric before, and when I've seen that I
was wrong I accepted it and moved on. There have been times where he
has agreed with my interpretation of rules that were not set in stone,
and that's saying something because Eric is as hard an adherent to the
letter of the rules as I've seen (nothing personal there Eric...).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Let's just all get a bong...
Sheesh.
Edited by MogwaiSC on 25 November 2007 at 11:38am
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RobPro
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 12:07pm | IP Logged
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I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong when I see it, and I ask questions when I don't understand the rules. Eric broke the rules down in logical order and explained them. He answered all my questions.
I just don't see any reason to take things on "authority" when they don't make sense to me. I'm sure you understand that feeling.
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 6:36pm | IP Logged
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MogwaiSC wrote:
There have been times where he
has agreed with my interpretation of rules that were not set in stone,
and that's saying something because Eric is as hard an adherent to the
letter of the rules as I've seen (nothing personal there Eric...).
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I don't take as an insult, though I fear you may misinterpret why I'm all rules lawyers - besides my love of rules lawyering, that is ;-)
You see, I don't have anything against house rules or intentionally different interpretations of the rules per se; I just believe that it's important to understand how and why the rules work they way they do before you go about changing them. In gaming I've found that the biggest reason people want to incorporate house rules is because they don't understand the rules as they're actually written. If they fully understood how the rules are supposed to work many times they will find that a house rule just isn't necessary or isn't quite as good an idea as they had thought it was.
Edited by ericbsmith on 25 November 2007 at 6:36pm
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Eric B. Smith
GE Card Museum
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 9:40pm | IP Logged
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ericbsmith wrote:
MogwaiSC wrote:
There have been times where he
has agreed with my interpretation of rules that were not set in stone,
and that's saying something because Eric is as hard an adherent to the
letter of the rules as I've seen (nothing personal there Eric...).
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I don't take as an insult, though I fear you may misinterpret why I'm all rules lawyers - besides my love of rules lawyering, that is ;-)
You see, I don't have anything against house rules or intentionally different interpretations of the rules per se; I just believe that it's important to understand how and why the rules work they way they do before you go about changing them. In gaming I've found that the biggest reason people want to incorporate house rules is because they don't understand the rules as they're actually written. If they fully understood how the rules are supposed to work many times they will find that a house rule just isn't necessary or isn't quite as good an idea as they had thought it was.
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And that is a good idea, but with GE, alot of the rules were left vague. Some of the card rules are very vague. Some house rules clear up this vageness, and some just rewrite them to suit individual player tastes.
Like, removing all the rules from AMRD, because it is viewed as too powerful. No one card is that powerful. If you don't like the AMRD, run 3 R/L-7 Transporter Malfs. That takes care of the AMRD quite nicely.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
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Eric,
I understand, there are aspects of the game that still escape me, and
some I'm actively avoiding (e.g. the whole instant reaction thing...)
That's the value of this forum, that we can discuss these things and get
them worked out.
and Rob, I don't blame you for anything, and yes, I understand what you
mean. After all, I'm sure we've all got a competitive streak and when we
get attached to something, even an idea, we can get upset when those
ideas are attacked. (Hell, just look at religious belief!)
Anyway, it's all good, and I'm glad to see that this is resolving well.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 10:40pm | IP Logged
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werewolflht65 wrote:
Like, removing all the rules from AMRD, because it is viewed as too powerful. No one card is that powerful.
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You've said you group plays the card without its cloning ability, so you're not treating the card much differently than I am.
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Biegel
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 5:43am | IP Logged
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How about sharing what a AMRD is?
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 9:33am | IP Logged
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Not really. The card isn't played against your opponent's fleet, just a volley.
I guess the real question would be 'Is the volley in your opponents fleet?'
cards are either played to or against another card or to or against a fleet. They are never played against a "card action," "weapons volley," or other such concept.
Correct.
Does anyone have the Universe text? I thought this was cleared up with new text.
Luck Demon Stops ALL luck cards played.
No, it doesn't.
As I said before, he who controls the most recent LD in play decides where all the green cards go.
Much better.
So, if the Luck Demon is the player who's firing the weapons volley, there is no opponent weapons volley to redirect so the Luck Demon is voided - it "fizzles."
To clarify, the Luck Demon doesn't fizzle. The TE does. As you note later in the thread.
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Biegel
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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Still don,t know what a AMRD stands for?
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 11:03am | IP Logged
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Don't remember what each of the letters stands for, but it is a Marine Depot.
It is a promo card that has a built in holographic projector and transporter.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 12:26pm | IP Logged
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I'll post the text for it in Rules later today, don't have the card on hand right now.
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 12:30pm | IP Logged
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Gekonauak wrote:
So, if the Luck Demon is the player who's firing the weapons volley, there is no opponent weapons volley to redirect so the Luck Demon is voided - it "fizzles."
To clarify, the Luck Demon doesn't fizzle. The TE does. As you note later in the thread. |
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Ahh, brainfart. Hopefully it was obvious from the context that this is what I meant to say.
AMRD is the T8 Aesthetic Marine Recruiting Depot, a promo terrain which as planetary shields, built in transporter, built in cloning device, and is immune to monsters and occurances. A *WAY* overpowered card.
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Eric B. Smith
GE Card Museum
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Biegel
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 12:35pm | IP Logged
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Geko Thanks , It would be nice if people discribing something for the first time would not abreveate cards as it makes it hard for to follow the thread.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
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AMRD means Aesthetic Marine Recruit Depot.
It is a T8 with 8 shields. It may take half damage from weapons fire, I
don't remember for certain.
It has a cloning device and an oscillating transporter built into it, each
requiring one energy to engage.
You play a marine to it, clone it, and transport the clone anywhere you
like to kill any crew you like (except a War Veteran, or something like
that).
Is a very devastating card. I used to put one in my reserve fleet with a
marine. No one could get a cybermage or quartermaster into play
against me for more than one turn. We eventually banned them. The
only card our group has ever banned.
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Biegel
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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Thanks.Everyone
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 10:21pm | IP Logged
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Has anyone ever heard of R/L-7 Transporter Malfunction? It really does stop people from going nuts with the AMRD.
And, while it may be immune to Monsters and Occs, it isn't immune to Mr Luck... Vac effect and Twist come immediately to mind..
We all run it here in Philly, and no one complains.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 8:55am | IP Logged
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Vac Effect and Twist will not work on it, but Frayed will.
The problem is once they put the Marine on it, it becomes the basis of the stack.
And, while I agree that it is an overpowered card, (and if I had the chance to do it over again, I would), I certainly wouldn't restrict it in any way.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 12:40pm | IP Logged
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Ok, besides the Basis issue, I was refering to after it hits the table, vac or twist it. Sure, if you wait for the Marine, then it's too late.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 2:23pm | IP Logged
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The ARMD is basically a 21 strength card, A T8 plus the E6 Osc transporter plus a E7 clone device. all with shields and immunities.
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 10:12pm | IP Logged
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targeting error (universe)
Targeting computer targets a friendly unit.
- Redesignate 1 opponent volley to 1 target in that opponent's fleet.
- Cards which fired in that volley cannot be targeted and do not protect
the Sector HQ or Psy Network from the redirected volley.
- Discarded after use.
an open question is where it's played
and luck demon (universe)
A luck demon alters luck.
- All luck cards played by opponents on their own fleets may instead be
immediately played by the player possessing the most recently played
luck demon in play.
- All luck cards played by opponents against the fleet are ignored
(discarded) unless the luck demon player wants it played there.
- Destroyed by research equal to its strength.
so you can play luck cards against anyone with no luck demon in their
fleet (regardless of what other luck demons are in play)
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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
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Not quite true, any luck card played is still in your fleet, even if it's played against others. The person with the most recent Luck Demon would still get to designate where it goes.
That's my understanding from all this, at least.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 28 November 2007 at 8:00am | IP Logged
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Hmmm... The TE should be played against an opponent fleet. It should have been fixed, but wasn't.
The LD player does not have to use the LD. If you play a Luck card to your fleet, he has the option of playing it instead (as if he played it from his hand). If you play a Luck card against his fleet, or a card in his fleet (including the TE), he has the option of negating it.
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 28 November 2007 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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let's not forget unlucky targeting (universe)
Space debris interferes with targeting systems.
- Played against an opponent weapons volley.
- Weapons volley is divided by 2.
- Discarded after use.
which IS played against a volley.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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That's how the TE is phrased, Tarquon. The thing is, those cards are played -to your fleet- and are therefore subject to Luck Demonery.
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Galactic Empires : News and Misc.
Topic: Mistaken Concepts
