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Biegel
Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007
Location: Christmas Island
Posts: 390
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| Posted: 25 December 2007 at 9:24pm | IP Logged
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See I know why I post here ,You have given me Valuble information. I was under the misconception that you had to file for the rights to be in effect. I must talk to the leagle beagle that informed me that only regestered art was protected. Thats the kind of help you get for no pay advise. I had never heard of the Berne Convention, I will have to look into that as well. You made me examine my cards for copyright and agin you saw something I didn't . Eye sight going I guess. I think on some of the earlier cards I saw a Companion games Trademark and made the blunder of assumeing and we know where that took me. I should have read more of the cards I guess. Eric thank you for pointing that out to me. With Humble Apoligy mostspaceman Biegel
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werewolflht65
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Joined: 08 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 780
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 6:18am | IP Logged
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I suggest Eric and Most Spaceman both do a Wiki search on the Berne Convention.
I just did, and while i was initially intrigued by what was written, it by no means contradicts the issue with regards to artist copyright.
The Berne Convention only protects Writers, Photographers and Cinematographers. Artists are not implied or mentioned.
Also, once the rights to a piece of art are sold, according to the information gained from the WotC website, they become the sole property of the purchasing company. So, while Ms. Benson may have created artwork for both Magic and GE, at the time the contracts for her work were signed, GE was a living, breathing business entity.
All work she performed for GE was under contract for which she was duly compensated for and thus the work became the property of Companion Games.
When Companion went belly up, she was simply free to re-issue the work she had created for them (Them being Companion) without fear of a legal battle, because Companion no longer existed as a business entity. In layman's terms, she thumbed her nose at the copyright laws because she knew there was no one that could sue her.
And for the record, WotC OWNS all artist work used for their products, and will continue to own it 50 years past the company closing.
Just thought I'd mention that little legal tid bit.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 6:51am | IP Logged
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werewolflht65 wrote:
| The Berne Convention only protects Writers,
Photographers and Cinematographers. Artists are not implied or
mentioned. |
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Wikipedia is a great resource; it also has some extremely huge holes in it's information. Using Wikipedia as the be-all-and-end-all of your knowledge is just plain dumb.
Berne Convention at Cornell University Law School
Note that under Article 2 Section 1 what is copyrightable is specifically left open ended; virtually any form of artistic expression falls under copyright. The enumerated list is simply a list of examples.
While WotC may own the rights to their artwork, it's not necessarily true of other companies. WotC probably purchased all the rights to all their artwork or had it produced under contract as work-for-hire (in which case the company would always have had the copyright to the artwork). Other companies may simply have purchased a limited right to use the artwork in their games or publications.
Note that Magic cards say "Illus. such-and-such artist, Copyright WotC" where as GE cards say "Illustration copyright such-and-such an artist." Also, I believe Geko mentioned previously that Companion Games specificially did *NOT* purchase the copyright to the artwork, they only purchased the right to use the artwork in the game (when it's done for a movie it's called "Licensing"). As I said, there probably was a right to reprint the artwork as part of the game, but who holds that right now, or if that right has expired, is anybody's guess.
I'm not saying that the copyright is necessarily owned by it's original artist (though from what I can glean it most certainly is). I'm just saying you'd better damn well contact a lawyer before you assume that it's not owned by the original artists. That's why Lawyers get paid 6 or 7 figure incomes while I (and probably most of you) only make 5 figures.
10 Big Myths about copyright explained
Edited by ericbsmith on 26 December 2007 at 7:22am
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Eric B. Smith
GE Card Museum
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Lobo
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 7:30am | IP Logged
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-Stop. Whoever is interested in how copyright and intellectual property in general is going to work for any sort of re-use of all the material from GE or any revival needs to talk to an experienced attorney in this area and stop reading this thread (except that part eric mentioned at the end of his post about doing the same thing, good advice). Every part of the game potentially is protected by some form of IP safeguard.
Additionally, just because someone signs a contract (would have to look at the terms of the agreement) doesn't mean they still cannot prevent someone from re-using the image or work for profit. in fact, you don't even have to file a copyright in many instances to protect your original work from being used for profit by someone who stole it.
There are too many suppositions, generalizations, assumptions, and flat out wrong info here that no one should rely on. Hire an attorney if you ain't starting from scratch.
And for the record, i only get paid a 5-figure income.....Lobo
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 8:58am | IP Logged
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Think what you want about me, but there has only been a few, and I do emphasize the word FEW, interesting ideas that would receive special consideration should this game be revived.
As to the rest of you, if you still want to play with your outdated GE cards, you can play your way, and completely ignore the new game, and live in your own little gamer pocket dimension.
GE needs a complete redo to be successful. Period.
You are not going to believe this, but I completely agree. And, some of those very few ideas that you liked, came from me. Although the person I told was sworn to secrecy Aye, Eaglepreacher?!? ;)
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 9:31am | IP Logged
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In regards to the artwork of the game. Since I was the art director of the game, and had privy to the contracts, I can tell you that you cannot use any of the art without reaquiring the rights to do so from the artists. Unequivocally.
We had the rights to use the art for the card game only. We did not own ANY of the art (except the few pieces from early on which were since lost in my house fire in '99).
Even a reprint of the cards is not allowed.
When Companion went belly up, she was simply free to re-issue the work she had created for them (Them being Companion) without fear of a legal battle, because Companion no longer existed as a business entity.
Actually, she had the rights to use the art however she saw fit when Companion was still a business entity. As long as it wasn't for use in another CCG.
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werewolflht65
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Joined: 08 October 2007
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Posts: 780
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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Always good to know, and for future reference, all artists hired for the new revival will have their art purchased for use by the company indefinitely.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 11:33am | IP Logged
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I suggest you setup your own forums for your new game. I think discussion of another project would cause these forums to lose focus.
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Biegel
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Joined: 19 October 2007
Location: Christmas Island
Posts: 390
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 3:14pm | IP Logged
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Somebody once said if you want to know what another man knows make a statement you know to be flawed and the other man will give you more information than if you asked a direct Question. Does anyone here know if that is true? mostspaceman
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werewolflht65
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Posts: 780
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 6:33am | IP Logged
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Well, I WAS planning a big brainstorming session for before and after the tourney I was going to host in January, as more people who play besides our group would have been available for direct comment.
But then, the NE group bowed out and I didn't hear one way or the other if Geko was coming, so I canceled the event.
So now the entire venture rests on the shoulders of only two world champions (Geo & Harry) as opposed to adding a few more voices.
And don't blame me for that Rob, blame your group, and Elmer's stubbornness.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 6:54am | IP Logged
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Geko will probably only come once a year, and it would be when the weather is warmer.
And, he would be able to convince other people to attend as well.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 11:41am | IP Logged
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Uhh, Wolfy, don't blame other people because you can't control the way you act. I didn't really want to say it in these boards, but YOU are the entire reason nobody wants to go to New Jersey.
No one wants to drive 4+ hours to play a game with someone who will get bent out of shape at minor rules disagreements and banish people from his game for having a different train of thought.
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werewolflht65
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Joined: 08 October 2007
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Posts: 780
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 3:03pm | IP Logged
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Nuff said, keep your whinny bitch ass in NE then.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
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Nuff said indeed.
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Galactic Empires : News and Misc.
Topic: GE’s possible rebirth
