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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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I play the O9. First card I draw is a patrol ship. If I discard that, does it keep returning to my hand so I can re-use it to discard cards and just keep drawing?
I'll post the text for the O9 when I find my copy. This came up the last game I played.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 10:19am | IP Logged
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Yes, it is returned to your hand whenever it is discarded.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 10:23am | IP Logged
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So if I had a C5 out, I could just keep discarding the patrol ship and draw 5 more cards with no downside?
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 10:41am | IP Logged
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any particular C5?
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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
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O9 Discovery of Discoveries
-May not be played if no crew cards are in play.
-Draw one card from the deck and place it into the hand.
-Optionally, discard one card from hand and draw another. Continue until no card is discarded.
-Maximum number of cards that may be drawn equals the strength of the lowest crew card in the fleet.
So, I play this card and say I have a C5 Quartermaster in play. I draw my first card, it's a patrol ship. Do I basically have "free draws" now?
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
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yep.
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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Up to five, the strength of the lowest crew. You should be able to do this if any card in your hand is a patrol ship.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 1:23pm | IP Logged
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Would the patrol ship have to wait until the O9 finished resolving before it could trigger and go back to your hand?
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 2:32pm | IP Logged
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no, the patrol ship says when it is discarded. When that is done, the patrol ship pops back into your hand.
It's a good combo.
Edited by Gekonauak on 27 May 2008 at 2:33pm
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RobPro
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| Posted: 27 May 2008 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
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So that can resolve during the resolution of the O9? Does that may I can play cards inbetween drawing cards from an Alliance Treaty or Alien Artifact, before drawing all of them?
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 8:18am | IP Logged
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no, it doesn't.
Nothing is giving you that ability.
But, the patrol ship says, when discarded put it back into your hand.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 10:27am | IP Logged
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Yes, but wouldn't that trigger have to wait until the O9 finishes resolving before it can go back into the hand? Here is how I see it happening, stop me if I'm wrong.
According to the Last-in/First-out rule, you play the O9 and it begins resolving. The Patrol Ship goes to the discard pile, then it queues up a 'return to the hand' trigger. That trigger can't happen until you fully resolve the O9, because you're not done getting the O9 out.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 11:21am | IP Logged
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the last-in first-out rule only applies to reaction sequences.
Think of it this way:
You play a tech breakthrough.
You draw (and play) in the following order:
an Alliance Treaty (for card draws), a Cat Rep, and a Terrain.
Your Opponent crinkles the Cat Rep.
Do you draw the Cat Rep as part of the 5 cards in the Alliance Treaty? or do resolve the Alliance Treaty first, before you play the Cat Rep?
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RobPro
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 3:11pm | IP Logged
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I would say you have to draw all the Alliance Treaty cards before you can play any of them. Then you would play the Cat Rep., and your opponent could crinkle it.
Otherwise, it gets tricky. What if everyone at the table participates in crinkle/cat rep action, and you lose track of how many cards were already drawn off the Alliance Treaty fifteen minutes later when the group has decided if the cat rep hits play or not?
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 3:42pm | IP Logged
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Same thing with the patrol ship, it resolves when it happens.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 6:30pm | IP Logged
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It's trigger goes in when it happens, but I don't think it hits your hand until you finish drawing/discarding.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 8:43am | IP Logged
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If your group wants to play it that way, that is fine.
If judging a tournament, i would say that the patrol ship hits your hand as soon as you discard it.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 10:43am | IP Logged
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My group wasn't sure how to play it. We ended with a weird ruling "if the card gets returned to your hand when you discard it for a 'discard' effect like the O9, then it wasn't really discarded and you have to discard something else." I figured I'd post it here for a little more clarity.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 12:44pm | IP Logged
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it is a quite little combo, but it only works if you have a patrol ship in your hand, and most people don't stack their decks with patrol ships. so the chances of it happening are pretty slim. Couple that witht the fact the everybody can still react to it happening, and you get a fairly week combo.
Can it net you 10 cards? sure, but you can get the same effect many different ways.
I'd say let it ride.
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
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Geko, how can it net 10 cards? unless you are assuming his lowest strength sship is a flagship.... in his example it could oinly net 5.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 3:05pm | IP Logged
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the most it will ever net is 10 cards. In this particular example it can only get you 5.
And, it depends on the crew in your fleet, not the ship strength.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
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Suppose I had a C10 Spiritual Leader on a T5 Galactic Trade World. 14 cards. A patrol ship or empire-specific fighter is all I need... I just think it's a bit silly.
Most people (in my group) run a few patrol ships and the R/E fighters, when you're sifting through a few cards you might run into them. Naturally, it's a combo that requires two parts, but I don't know many other cards that could draw you over 10 cards in a single turn.
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Biegel
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| Posted: 30 May 2008 at 5:13am | IP Logged
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You know there is a way to set up an equation to figure the exact odds of drawing any combo based on the number of cards in a particular hand. I stopped taking math when the professor hit on that senario. I bet we have some young Buck that still has the where all and the hows to to give us the answer. If I could find my book of Hoyle( Gamblers Bible) I would throw out the odds to every card possibility for any hand. Kinda looks like we need the Foundation that Isacac set up to go further. Anyoneone here seen a Mule around this sector? ( With apoligies to anyone so offended) By the By I actualy left Vagas a Wienner -$250 ahead
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RobPro
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| Posted: 30 May 2008 at 8:50am | IP Logged
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Do your odds figure in putting the O9, a patrol ship, and a C7 crew in your reserve fleet? I'm not saying that's a good idea, but I typically think drawing more than 5 cards during your turn gets unbalancing.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 30 May 2008 at 8:58am | IP Logged
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Yes, with Ability cards and such, you can get your strengths crew over 10.
But, typically a discard equivaency will net you more.
Provided that you have the C10 in your fleet, and that your opponents have let it live, and provided the C10 is the only crew in your fleet, and provided your opponents cannot play a reaction card to stop you, and provided that you want the added attention (after dropping a C10, you just may), and provided...
Do you see where I am going here?
There are many many ifs in this scenario, and they all have to align just right.
It is a combo, nothing more.
Edited by Gekonauak on 30 May 2008 at 9:01am
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Biegel
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| Posted: 31 May 2008 at 4:04am | IP Logged
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As I am beginning to understand this game the stocking of your deck for the most possible draws to end up in your hand is the way to go. That and keeping the good will of your oppanants for as long as you can or not apppearing to be a threat to them. There are many varibles that come into play as a game proceeds. If you are a person that luck always allows you to get what your going for this card combo is Ideal. If you on the other hand seldom see the light at the end of the tunnel might want to stock your deck for more reasonable combos. Now not even ever had a chance to observe a game I would stay conservative in my deck building to give my self a chance. If you are playing for fun as most people here seem to be I would say you could be more radical in your deck building in hopes of drawing a killer combo. It is good for us newbees that you ole farts discuss these combos because it gives us a more comprehensive understanding of the varities of play possible.
Edited by Biegel on 31 May 2008 at 4:07am
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 26 July 2008 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
...Naturally, it's a combo that requires two
parts,... |
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Uh... doesn't that go without saying?
Frankly, I think it's a cool little combination, and one that I hadn't thought
of before. I agree with Geko, the patrol ship states that it is returned to
the hand "when discarded". Now if it said "when destroyed" that would be
another matter. It does have a lot of inherent limitations to get it to work,
so it's not like it's going to be super powerful in a deck. But unless you
have a C1 currently in play, it's a good way to get another handful of cards
in your hand.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 27 June 2010 at 11:47pm | IP Logged
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I've actually pulled this one off against Galactus a couple of times
now.
First time I had a C6 Cybermage on a trade world, for 8 cards.
Second time I had a C5 Psybermage with an improved automaton on
a trade world, for 12 cards.
If you time it right it can be quite a payoff.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 14 July 2010 at 6:32pm | IP Logged
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My thoughts are the sequence would go something like this:
Card Action Resolving: Play Discovery of Discoveries
----------------------Draw initial card
----------------------discard patrol ship
----------------------Draw additional card
----------------------discard random card
----------------------etc, continues until done
After the Discovery of Discoveries is fully resolved: Return the discarded patrol ship to hand
If you keep returning the patrol ship during the O9's resolution, you're resolving multiple affects inbetween the actual cardplay's resolution, which I think you would need to fully resolve before moving on.
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marhawkman
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For a MTG example: the ship is a static effect that doesn't use the stack....
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Galactic Empires : Rules Base
Topic: O9 Discovery of Discoveries
