Galactic Empires: Where can I place an H1 Time Warp?

Active Topics

Memberlist

Help

Rules Base
Galactic Empires : Rules Base

Topic: Where can I place an H1 Time Warp?

Author

Message

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Galaktische
IRC
IRC

Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354

Posted: 24 February 2009 at 9:13pm \| IP Logged

If my opponent has a base played to a terrain would you
agree that an H1 Time Warp must target the stack or can
it target the terrain only?

If it can target the terrain only what happens to the
base assuming it nor the planet have any applicable card
rules.

To help out old Geko... :P

A time warp can be played on any card or stack of cards
friendly or enemy.
The time warp lasts a number of turns equal to its
strength.
The card or cards affected are treated as if they were
not there. They cannot be damaged, do not block damage,
and cannot fire weapons or perform other functions.

RobPro
IRC
IRC

Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 835

Posted: 25 February 2009 at 7:50am \| IP Logged

I think "any card or stack of cards" is an important distinction. The terrain is not any card, it is a stack of cards. If the TW said it could hit the basis of a stack, then sure, but it doesn't say that. That is how my playgroup runs it.

Gekonauak
IRC
IRC

Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595

Posted: 25 February 2009 at 8:15am \| IP Logged

If you play it on the terrain all cards in play on that terrain go away as well.

And, thanks.

marhawkman
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2010
Posts: 250

Posted: 09 February 2010 at 11:42am \| IP Logged

i just remembered a question that keep bugging me here.

Is it a player turn or complete turn?

Gekonauak
IRC
IRC

Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595

Posted: 09 February 2010 at 2:10pm \| IP Logged

Time Skip is a player turn.
Time Warp is a complete turn.

MogwaiSC
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903

Posted: 10 February 2010 at 12:22pm \| IP Logged

RobPro wrote:

I think "any card or stack of cards" is an important
distinction. The terrain is not any card, it is a stack of cards. If the TW said
it could hit the basis of a stack, then sure, but it doesn't say that. That is
how my playgroup runs it.

A terrain card by itself, or any other card by itself is not a stack. It only
becomes a stack once other cards are played to it.

MogwaiSC
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903

Posted: 10 February 2010 at 12:25pm \| IP Logged

Gekonauak wrote:

If you play it on the terrain all cards in play on
that terrain go away as well.

And, thanks.

Andrew, can you be more precise what you mean here by "go away"?

One possible interpretation is that the base become subject to the time
warp or time skip so is also treated as if it were not there.

On the other hand it could be interpreted as meaning those other cards
are discarded. If that's the case, these become incredibly powerful cards
as they can selectively target any card in a stack even the basis of a
stack. Thus, they become immediate base, crew, insert card here,
killers... That pesky war prophet with a promotion your opponent has
on that command central ? Just time skip the planet, the rest of it goes
to the discard pile... Sounds broken to me.

ht80
IRC

Joined: 21 August 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 66

Posted: 10 February 2010 at 7:17pm \| IP Logged

The time warp is played on a card or on a stack. That seems pretty
straight forward to me.

You can put the card onto a card that doesn't have any other cards on it.
The play stacks your time warp with the other card and the other card will
not be there for one complete turn. At the beginning of the player's turn
that played it following the play, the time warp is discarded leaving the
original card.

You can put the card onto a card that has other cards stacked on it. In
this case, the card and its stack are under the warp and until the time
warp is discarded, they are not there.

In terms of a terrain, base, crew (on base) and ability stack, if you play on
the terrain, all cards stacked on the terrain are effected. If you play it on
the base, the base, crew and ability are effected. If you play it on the
crew, the crew and ability are effected. If you play it on the ability, only it
is effected.

In the example I gave above, you could time warp the base and then
destroy the terrain. When the warp is discarded, the base, crew and ability
are discarded since the base can't be floating in space without the
terrain. (Unless the ability is the greater automaton which allows crew to
float in space. Then the crew would survive even though the terrain and
base are now gone.) If you time warped the crew and then destroyed the
base, when the time warp is discarded, the crew stays on the terrain since
crew are allowed to be stacked on the terrain.

If you want to kill a crew floating in space with a greater automaton, time
warp the ability card. The crew dies. When the time warp is discarded, the
ability is also discarded since you can't have an ability in play without it
being stacked on something.

Galactic Empires 101, use of a time warp or time skip...

Edited by ht80 on 10 February 2010 at 7:22pm

marhawkman
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2010
Posts: 250

Posted: 11 February 2010 at 1:25pm \| IP Logged

I would rule that you can't time warp something that has things stacked on top of it. At least not without taking the things stacked on top with it.

I would let people time warp anything that is stacked on something else as long as they follow the previous statement.

So:

planet

base

crew

ability

You could hit any, but whatever is "on top" would be affected as well.

This does raise an interesting question about what happens it you time warp a base then blow up the planet the base was played on.

marhawkman
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2010
Posts: 250

Posted: 11 February 2010 at 1:27pm \| IP Logged

How do you edit? I forgot a line: could you play something as a reaction to move the base to a new planet?

MogwaiSC
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903

Posted: 11 February 2010 at 2:34pm \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

This is exactly what I wanted to know. As I mentioned above, because of the
wording of the card, that it can be played just to a single card, even the basis of a
stack, it could be interpreted such that if you were to play it on a terrain with a
base, the base no longer has a terrain to support it and then must be discarded.

ht80 wrote:

Galactic Empires 101, use of a time warp or time skip...

I'll admit I hadn't seen the value of these little guys... Of course, you can only use
time skips defensively if I remember correctly, but I'll have to rethink the use and
value of the H1's.

ht80
IRC

Joined: 21 August 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 66

Posted: 11 February 2010 at 3:38pm \| IP Logged

marhawkman wrote:

How do you edit? I forgot a line: could you
play something as a reaction to move the base to a new planet?

I answered the question about what happens to the base after the terrain
is destroyed in my original post with the example.

About answering these two, when the time warp is discarded you could
react to that with a reaction card or an "as a reaction" action. There might
be a card available to save the base as a reaction or there might not be. If
there is, it could be used. Certainly, the crew could be saved by various
means even if the base can not be.

I can edit because Andrew decided I was important enough to give IRC
rights to and there is a little edit button on the bottom of each of my
posts so that I can edit it.

None of my recent decks are without a Time Warp and a Time Skip. Two
of the most useful cards in the game. I've even put in 5 Time Warp cards
to hold a category. Three time warps on three ships so no cards are
defending the sector headquarters and, poof, the player is out of the
game. That is why many promo ships and terrain became "immune" to
hazards or occurrences.

Then again, I have time skipped a time warp which makes for a more
interesting interaction. The time skip takes out the time warp only since
nothing is stacked on top of it bringing the time warped stack back for
one player turn.

Edited by ht80 on 11 February 2010 at 3:48pm

MogwaiSC
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903

Posted: 11 February 2010 at 5:30pm \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

marhawkman wrote:

How do you edit? I forgot a line:
could you
play something as a reaction to move the base to a new planet?

I answered the question about what happens to the base after the terrain
is destroyed in my original post with the example.

pardon me if I'm being a little dense... one of my best friends who I've
known for 30 years, who I played GE with, passed away last week.

ht80
IRC

Joined: 21 August 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 66

Posted: 11 February 2010 at 5:49pm \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

In terms of a terrain, base, crew (on base) and ability
stack, if you play on the terrain, all cards stacked on the terrain are
effected. If you play it on the base, the base, crew and ability are effected.
If you play it on the crew, the crew and ability are effected. If you play it
on the ability, only it is effected.

In the example I gave above, you could time warp the base and then
destroy the terrain. When the warp is discarded, the base, crew and ability
are discarded since the base can't be floating in space without the
terrain. (Unless the ability is the greater automaton which allows crew to
float in space. Then the crew would survive even though the terrain and
base are now gone.)

I am sorry about your friend. I lost my mother last year and a high school
friend to a stroke a few months ago. Losses are never easy.

Gekonauak
IRC
IRC

Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595

Posted: 12 February 2010 at 8:54am \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

If you time warped the crew and then destroyed the
base, when the time warp is discarded, the crew stays on the terrain since
crew are allowed to be stacked on the terrain.

That is not true. If you destroyed the crew's location, when the crew came back into play it would be discarded. It would not change locations and be immediately transported to the terrain.

All other comments are correct.

Gekonauak
IRC
IRC

Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595

Posted: 12 February 2010 at 9:09am \| IP Logged

I believe there is a Base Relocation card.

Hmm... but, the O2 from Time Gate is not reactionary, and you need a Tug.

Ah, here we go R/E8 base Thrusters. Also from TG.

To clear it up, if you played the Time Warp on the stack mentioned above. The Base, Crew, and Ability card are also effected by the Time Warp and are also considered our of play for one complete turn.

I don't know where on Eric's site the Galactic Fire magazine's are archived, but the Time Twins are covered in depth in Galactic Fire #3.

ht80
IRC

Joined: 21 August 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 66

Posted: 12 February 2010 at 10:32am \| IP Logged

Gekonauak wrote:

ht80 wrote:

If you time warped the crew and then destroyed the
base, when the time warp is discarded, the crew stays on the terrain since
crew are allowed to be stacked on the terrain.

That is not true. If you destroyed the crew's location, when the crew came
back into play it would be discarded. It would not change locations and
be immediately transported to the terrain.

All other comments are correct.

We obviously don't agree on this one. I view this as the least controversial
view. The crew can be stacked on a terrain or a base. When the crew
reappears, the stack is perfectly legal with the crew on the terrain so I'd
rather not argue the point.

I don't really know anyone dumb enough to try any of the ploys as
described. There is too much of a chance that it won't accomplish the
objective in the first place.

Gekonauak
IRC
IRC

Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595

Posted: 12 February 2010 at 10:50am \| IP Logged

Tony - See page 4 of GF #3 for further confirmation.

"- When a card is out of play, its location does not change. THe card need not be physically relocated, just ignored. When a card returns to play, if its location is gone, it would be discarded unless capable of existing independently."

ht80
IRC

Joined: 21 August 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 66

Posted: 12 February 2010 at 4:38pm \| IP Logged

It's stacked with the terrain so it isn't independent, is it. ;)

It was one of those arguments that I tried to avoid even if you attempted
to clarify it in Galactic Fire. A GF clarification only mattered to me in a
tournament situation anyway. In local games, the diplomacy was much
more important that winning every argument. Rulings were made by
consensus and getting 4-5 other players mad at you because you force a
ruling they didn't like by pointing to a tournament rules clarification just
ended your playing night earlier!

It also plays to the odds. What are the odds that a person would time
warp (skip) part of a stack just to cause the situation. The crew would
have been destroyed when the base was destroyed so why time warp
(skip) it just to cause the issue? It seems like an awful round about way to
kill a crew especially since there is no guarantee that you'll destroy the
base as expected! :)

Edited by ht80 on 12 February 2010 at 4:40pm

marhawkman
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2010
Posts: 250

Posted: 13 February 2010 at 2:55pm \| IP Logged

BTW, How many different strengths of Timewarp are there? I know I've seen 1 and 10, and I think I've seen a 5. Also do they all follow the same rules except for their strength?

ht80
IRC

Joined: 21 August 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 66

Posted: 13 February 2010 at 4:12pm \| IP Logged

There are only two hazards that are called Time Warp. Strength 1 and 10.

MogwaiSC
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903

Posted: 14 February 2010 at 1:58pm \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

It's stacked with the terrain so it isn't independent, is it. ;)

Even though the base is stacked with the terrain, isn't the base considered a
separate location? To my understanding it is, so I would agree with
Andrew. That's how we've always played it; some kind of transportation
would be necessary to move the crew from the former location of the base
to the location of the terrain.

ht80 wrote:

It also plays to the odds. What are the odds that a person would time
warp (skip) part of a stack just to cause the situation. The crew would
have been destroyed when the base was destroyed so why time warp
(skip) it just to cause the issue? It seems like an awful round about way to
kill a crew especially since there is no guarantee that you'll destroy the
base as expected! :)

Galactus has an annoying habit of getting a War Prophet in play quite
frequently in our games. Being able to time warp or time skip just the WP
to blow up the base, to then get rid of the WP would be very useful in such
a situation.

ht80
IRC

Joined: 21 August 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 66

Posted: 14 February 2010 at 3:29pm \| IP Logged

It's quite a bit simpler to use a Marine against the War Prophet.

Or you could cut his deck better. ;) He shouldn't be getting it that frequently
since it is only a single card in the entire deck!

And why would he play the War Prophet to the base instead of the terrain
under the base?

Gekonauak
IRC
IRC

Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595

Posted: 15 February 2010 at 10:23am \| IP Logged

Yes, they are separate locations.

btw, you couldn't use a shuttle to rescue your crew. This equipment needs to be placed at the crews location (that is no longer there) to rescue the crew.

marhawkman
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2010
Posts: 250

Posted: 17 February 2010 at 11:21am \| IP Logged

Ah, I found what had me confused. r/h5 is Time TRAP. very similar though.

MogwaiSC
IRC
IRC

Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903

Posted: 18 February 2010 at 12:41am \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

It's quite a bit simpler to use a Marine against the War
Prophet.

Or you could cut his deck better. ;) He shouldn't be getting it that
frequently
since it is only a single card in the entire deck!

And why would he play the War Prophet to the base instead of the
terrain
under the base?

One would think it would be easier to use a Marine, but he also
tends to somehow end up countering nearly everything I ever throw at
him. His luck with games in general is simply disgusting. We once
played four games of GE in a row, two player, and he played four
different decks. In each and every game he ended up drawing or getting
in his initial hand a discard equivalency, an accelerated timeline, and a
temporal engineer. I actually calculated the odds of that happening and
it was something like 64 million to one. But, I've seen him do things like
that repeatedly... it's just plain f**ked up sometimes, but that is how it
goes with him sometimes.

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum