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Blacklassie
Adept
Joined: 19 December 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 99
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| Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:49am | IP Logged
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The card reads:
-Played against a terrain card.
-Each turn causes three points of structural damage to the terrain.
-Reduces its production by half.
-Protected by shields(including planetary shields) at location.
-Destroyed by research points.
The question is do the shields protect the monster from research damage? Does the opponent have to reduce his own shields before allocating research to the creature, therefore giving the monster two attacks before the opponent can apply research?
If I play Monster Healing when the research is applied, would the free shield regeneration, in effect, give the creature two more turns to attack since the shields need reduced again?
Thanks.....Dan
Edited by Blacklassie on 09 April 2009 at 10:03am
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Lobo
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| Posted: 09 April 2009 at 10:36am | IP Logged
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-Well, my reading of the card is that the shields protect it from things that can normally be blocked by shields. For instance if your opponent plays a card that renders all monsters susceptible to weapons fire, thent he shields help (spiritual leader?).
The card rules on the monster do not, however, change the shields in any way. Research points cannot normally damage shields, the card rule doesn't change that, so i would say research doesn't bother with shields and gets through. The card rule relating to shields would only apply in situations that your opponent were using a hazard/crew/ship/equipment card to damage the monster (ie something that shields normally protect from) by non-research means.
Lobo
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ceejee
Acolyte
Joined: 03 March 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 21
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| Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
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AH Godzilla backwards: love this card in terrain killer decks.
Lobo is correct research is not blocked by shields.
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Gekonauak
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Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: 10 April 2009 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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Blacklassie wrote:
The question is do the shields protect the monster from research damage? |
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Yes, the shields do protect the monster against research applied.
Blacklassie wrote:
| Does the opponent have to reduce his own shields before allocating research to the creature, therefore giving the monster two attacks before the opponent can apply research? |
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No, not really. If there are 6 shields at his location, he just needs to apply 13 research. The first 6 applied take down the shields, and then the remainder are applied to the Monster.
Blacklassie wrote:
If I play Monster Healing when the research is applied, would the free shield regeneration, in effect, give the creature two more turns to attack since the shields need reduced again? |
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See, above.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 10 April 2009 at 9:39am | IP Logged
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Lobo wrote:
-Well, my reading of the card is that the shields protect it from things that can normally be blocked by shields. For instance if your opponent plays a card that renders all monsters susceptible to weapons fire, thent he shields help (spiritual leader?).The card rules on the monster do not, however, change the shields in any way. Research points cannot normally damage shields, the card rule doesn't change that, so i would say research doesn't bother with shields and gets through. The card rule relating to shields would only apply in situations that your opponent were using a hazard/crew/ship/equipment card to damage the monster (ie something that shields normally protect from) by non-research means.Lobo
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Well, actually, the shields protect the Monster from damage. Research applied to the Monster would damage it, so the shields prevent that damage, taking the damage themselves.
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Lobo
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| Posted: 10 April 2009 at 9:52am | IP Logged
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-The monster is not technically 'damaged' by research. It is 'destroyed' by application of research points equal to the strength of the monster. that's the way the card rule *should* read but the sentence is incomplete.
Agree to disagree and all that, house rule to your heart's content.
Lobo
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 10 April 2009 at 10:08am | IP Logged
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Yes, by all means, house rule it to your heart's content. :)
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RobPro
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Joined: 10 May 2004
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Posts: 835
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| Posted: 11 April 2009 at 1:16am | IP Logged
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This is an area that could probably have used some errata to clear this kind of issue up...
For example, if you have the Allizdog out and an M10 Zaggoth Guardian out, can your opponent apply 10 points of research, one at a time, to kill the Zaggoth Guardian?
M10 Zaggoth Guardian
XXXXX -Played to your fleet. -Negates all damage points applied to
friendly monsters in play. Sustains 1 point of damage (per monster
protected) when this id done. -Can only sustian damage when negating
monster damage. Cannot be healed. -Damages an opponent base/ship each
turn.
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Lobo
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| Posted: 12 April 2009 at 12:18pm | IP Logged
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"For example, if you have the Allizdog out and an M10 Zaggoth Guardian
out, can your opponent apply 10 points of research, one at a time, to
kill the Zaggoth Guardian?"
-Research applied to the Allizdog is generally going to happen during allocation phase. Similar to point allocation to other thing such as ships, bases, equipment, this allocation happens at once, during that phase. A reasonable reading of the rules results in the damage being applied at once, during allocation, and the Zaggoth negating the whole batch for 1 damage point of result on the Zaggoth. That's how we're playing it at least.
Good luck.
Lobo
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Galaktische
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Joined: 27 June 2007
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| Posted: 12 April 2009 at 11:30pm | IP Logged
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Agreed, you can only allocate research points to the Allizog once unless some card says otherwise. I think there are a few cards that say thay apply their points immediately? If this were so then you could allocate to the Allizog more than once in a turn.
J--
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 06 May 2009 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
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Seems to me that by the wording of the card, research doesn't "damage"
it. Rather, once enough research has been applied to it, then it's
"destroyed" (poor wording, yes), and then discarded.
However, it also does say it is protected by the shields at its location, so
I agree with the idea the shields should stop any research applied to the
monster. So for example, if there is a B3 Heavy Planetary Shield on the
planet, then 10 points of research would be needed to do one point of
applied research to the monster.
However, research is NOT damage in this case, to the monster as per
the wording on the card, or the shield for that matter. As a result,
application of that 10 points of research should NOT take down the
planetary shield. The next time research is applied to the monster,
again, the planetary shield, assuming it's still at full strength, should
stop 9 points of applied research before any gets through.
Perhaps this makes it too powerful, but from the way the card is
worded, I think this is the most logical conclusion.
Edited by MogwaiSC on 06 May 2009 at 12:19pm
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Blacklassie
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Joined: 19 December 2003
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| Posted: 06 May 2009 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
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Hello all
I do not see why there should be splash damage when applying reseach to these shields that have not been destroyed. I think if the sheilds are not destroyed that zero research gets through, that is the way it works for weapons fire. Since research cannot damage shields then it would take weapons fire to reduce them.
IMHO it's a screw your buddy card that causes your opponent to have to reduce his own shields.
Have a geat cinco de mayo
Dan
Edited by Blacklassie on 06 May 2009 at 5:18pm
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 07 May 2009 at 1:11pm | IP Logged
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Blacklassie wrote:
Since research cannot damage shields then it
would take weapons fire to reduce them.
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That actually sounds more reasonable to me. I suppose it could go either
way. House rule then I guess.
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Galactic Empires : Rules Base
Topic: M7 Allizdog
