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Blacklassie Adept
Joined: 19 December 2003 Location: United States Posts: 99
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Posted: 19 July 2009 at 10:21am | IP Logged
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Hello all
We have had another arguement so here goes. The card reads:
-Allows another terrain card of any strength to be played to this card. The two cards are treated as one, combining their strength points and output.
Question one: Can a T/B Vektrean base be played to this terrain card?
Question two: If it can be played to the T10, do they combine their strengths and do the shields on the T/B protect the T10?
I would like as many replys as possible. Thanks ahead ot time.
Dan
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Matchbox Adept
Joined: 27 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 118
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Posted: 19 July 2009 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
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i believe the T/B base can, cuz it is treated as a terrain. and the shields should protect it. if ya wanna make it really interesting, put an A10 artificial landmass on it. then you can have a nice stack going, although, it is time spindle bait lol
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 20 July 2009 at 3:38pm | IP Logged
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A T/B could not be played to the star, because according to the card/rules
it is clearly stated that a T/B is only PLAYED and damaged as if it were a
terrain card, it is a BASE for all other purposes.
You cannot also play an A10 Artificial Landmass to a T/B either, because
again, they are bases, not terrain. On the other hand, while a little
redundant, an E10 Subspace Stabilizers on a T/B can be pretty fearsome...
add an E9 Shroud to that and you've got a pretty nasty base that is very
hard to dispose of. Even better, put a Base Commander or a Tactical
Officer on it and now it protects your sector HQ as well.
Edited by MogwaiSC on 20 July 2009 at 3:40pm
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Eaglepreacher IRC
Joined: 21 December 2003 Location: United States Posts: 573
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Posted: 21 July 2009 at 2:43am | IP Logged
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we've always had the same type of argument. Eventually we came to the conclusion "NO" because of the treaeted as a base clause. and all this before the T/B 10 flag came out.
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:06am | IP Logged
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The logic of all this has already been hashed out in another thread I started
here about whether or not an O10 Planetary Destruction can take out a
T/B. The final ruling was that it cannot because T/B's are bases and not
terrain. Same reason the A10 Arti-landmass can't be played to one.
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Matchbox Adept
Joined: 27 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 118
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Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
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hmm ill have to ask the other people in my group, i thought we played it that way. cuz technicall it is a terrain, but a base for all other purposes, if i remember right. so maybe we played it that way, but didnt use the sheilds. ill have bignea read this once, see what he says.
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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Matchbox wrote:
cuz technicall it is a terrain, ... |
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No, it is a base. It's just played and damage as if it were a terrain card.
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Matchbox Adept
Joined: 27 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 118
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Posted: 24 July 2009 at 3:30pm | IP Logged
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i guess thats one thing to get rid of too if this game is gunna go on or whatever. the cards like that, its either a terrain or a base, or make it so it can be damaged as both, not just one or the other.
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ericbsmith IRC
Joined: 12 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 321
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Posted: 24 July 2009 at 3:38pm | IP Logged
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Yeah; the rules for the Asteroid Bases would have been so much clearer if they'd just read:
B7 Vektrean Asteroid Base - Must be played independently - Structure can only be damaged by Heavy Weapons
You'd have 99.5% of the same effect without all of the confusion and bull-pop.
Edited by ericbsmith on 24 July 2009 at 3:39pm
__________________ Eric B. Smith
GE Card Museum
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 25 July 2009 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
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You forgot to add: "May be played during turn 1".
Of course, this is our interpretation; since they're played as if they were
terrain, we allow them to be played on turn 1.
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dizzydemon Devoted
Joined: 05 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 43
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Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:07pm | IP Logged
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According to Galactic Fire issue number two on page 13 concerning Vektrean bases: "You can play a Vektrean asteroid base to a star because it is played as terrain, but you may not play a white dwarf to the Vektrean asteroid base because it is a base for purposes othe than being played and damaged."
On the same page under "combined" it says, "Whenever two or more cards become combined, they are treated as one card of the appropriate type. The strengths of the two cards are added to determine the strength of the combined card. Any shields and weapons are considered added together, forming one set of weapons and one shield."
Now, since it CLEARLY states that a Vektrean asteroid starbase may be played to a star, and in light of all of the above, why is a Vektrean T/B 9 Starbase played to a T10 Massive Star NOT treated as a strength of 19? I feel that "it's a base for all other purposes" is true but has nothing to do with how it is PLAYED and DAMAGED which of course is as terrain. Please explain it to me because what I have read so far does nothing to address the actual rules we have.
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:12pm | IP Logged
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My understanding is that information in galactic fire was published before
Universe was published, which tied up all those loose ends.
So according to the wording on the card in the Universe edition, which is
what you're supposed to go by as it is the most recent version of the rules,
Vek bases were changed from T to T/B. That was when it was changed
that they were a base and not a terrain.
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:26pm | IP Logged
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I believe, GF#1 came out in June of 1996. That means that Universe Edition came out first.
The rules found in GF#1-#3 would be the most current rules.
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 27 July 2009 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Okay then; it would seem there is an order of play precedent to be
considered here. If there is a terrain in play that can have another
terrain played to it, then the T/B could be played to that terrain,
because they are played as if they were a terrain. However, if the T/B is
already in play, terrain cards that can be played to other terrain cards
cannot be played to the T/B because it has already been played and is
now a base.
Otherwise, this doesn't seem to change anything that hasn't already
been discussed here.
The only question this raises is the oft debated question of how the O10
Planetary Destruction would affect a T/B combined with a terrain card.
It's already been established the T/B is not destroyed by the O10.
Would being combined make it then susceptible to it, or would it merely
destroy the terrain it is combined with and ignore the T/B?
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 28 July 2009 at 7:41am | IP Logged
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"Whenever two or more cards become combined, they are treated as one card of the appropriate type. The strengths of the two cards are added to determine the strength of the combined card."
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Eaglepreacher IRC
Joined: 21 December 2003 Location: United States Posts: 573
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Posted: 28 July 2009 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
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well then, canyou combine a T with a T/B.. they are different if you want to split hairs!
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 28 July 2009 at 1:38pm | IP Logged
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If the T/B is already in play, no, you can't.
But, if the T is in play and you are adding the T/B to it, yes.
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:22am | IP Logged
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Gekonauak wrote:
"Whenever two or more cards become combined,
they are treated as one card of the appropriate type. The strengths of the
two cards are added to determine the strength of the combined card."
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Well, I'd say then that the order of play takes precedence here, so if a T/B
was played to a terrain card, it would seem the T/B is now just a T. Hm.
Not sure I like that ruling. But, the reasoning does follow, so, oh well. I'll
have to remember not to combine them with any terrain cards.
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MogwaiSC IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004 Location: United States Posts: 903
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Posted: 07 August 2009 at 3:56pm | IP Logged
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So if you combine a T/B with the T10, is the resulting combination a T or a
B?
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Blacklassie Adept
Joined: 19 December 2003 Location: United States Posts: 99
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Posted: 07 August 2009 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
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Hello all
In our group we have decided that you can play the T/B to the T10 but it does not combine. It protects the T10. That's how we are doing it.
Dan
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 7:44am | IP Logged
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i think this is how we were handling it.
but, whatever you decide in your own group is probably the best.
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dizzydemon Devoted
Joined: 05 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 43
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Posted: 11 August 2009 at 10:19am | IP Logged
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I polled two more players in our "group" - one agreed with my interpretation and one agreed with Blacklassie's.
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Blacklassie Adept
Joined: 19 December 2003 Location: United States Posts: 99
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Posted: 11 September 2009 at 10:49am | IP Logged
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The card reads: R/S1 Base Relocation Tug
May move one base from one terrain to another each turn.
When played in reaction the Base Relocation Tug is played in the engaged position.
I have always wanted a Vektrean T/B to play to regular terrain. Can this Tug move a Vektrean T/B from the T10 Super Massive Star to,say a Reactionary World?
Dan
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dizzydemon Devoted
Joined: 05 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 43
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Posted: 19 September 2009 at 8:30am | IP Logged
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I think it would. It is a base "for all other purposes"; so they card that allows a base to be moved should be able to.
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ericbsmith IRC
Joined: 12 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 321
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Posted: 19 September 2009 at 8:37am | IP Logged
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I'll agree with dizzydemon; however, since neither the Vektrean Asteroid Base nor the Reactionary World have any rules on them allowing them to combine, when the Vektrean Base is moved to the Reactionary World it would become a base played to a terrain.
__________________ Eric B. Smith
GE Card Museum
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 2:34pm | IP Logged
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Well, actually, the T4 does say that it cannot be combined.
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