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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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This is my rule (Which takes it's creation from a card that exists) for doing "direct damage" to an opponent's SHQ.
Suicide Mission: During a players Allocation Phase, that player declares which of his ships (if any) will be undertaking a Suicide Mission. The ship declared as such must fire all of it's weapons directly at an opponent's Sector HQ. The following rules and conditions MUST be met:
-The ship may not have a Natural (Unmodified) Strength higher then 5.
-No crew or equipment cards may be in play on the ship so declared. Cards played against the ship in reaction do not count against this.
-No cards may be played on the ship by the controlling player that would modify the weapons fire. (ie: No Lucky Targeting or Cat Reps)
-The controlling player MUST have at least one other ship (or base with a Tactical Officer) in play to protect their Sector HQ.
-Only ships may perform a Suicide Mission, not a Psy or Base. Dragons may also do these types of attacks.
-After the Weapons Fire phase, the ship is discarded.
Thoughts, comments and discussion welcome. The reason for this is to speed up games. They take WAYYY too long...
And please people, while I value your input, please be sure to read this rules idea THOROUGHLY before posting your comments and issues. Too many of you only see the parts you don't like, completely gloss over the control factors, and post rants about how broken an idea is.
Truth be told, I could have written rules for this game back then. I was still hammering out the whole Li-Fo issue with the MtG crowd when GE came along.
Edited by werewolflht65 on 15 November 2007 at 4:23pm
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 2:04pm | IP Logged
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I say hunky dunky and try it. But I would allow a psy to do it also, you know psychic burnout pushing his brain to the limit. But i do have a few questions? the ships/dragon does what damage? weapons or ramming. Also when does the damage occur? Also, can the modified strngth be higher than 5 and one more.. does this circumvent any ships protecting the HQ?
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 2:06pm | IP Logged
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I don't get it. Are you saying this ship can fire through opponent ships to hit the Sector HQ?
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 2:26pm | IP Logged
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Eaglepreacher wrote:
| I say hunky dunky and try it. But I would allow a psy to do it also, you know psychic burnout pushing his brain to the limit. But i do have a few questions? the ships/dragon does what damage? weapons or ramming. Also when does the damage occur? Also, can the modified strngth be higher than 5 and one more.. does this circumvent any ships protecting the HQ? |
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Point noted about the Psy, and will consider it. It is only weapons fire. No ramming. It takes place during weapons fire like all combat.
No, the ship can only be Strength FIVE or LOWER! That is why I worded it as such (Natural {Unmodified} Strength of 5!
Yes, an opponent may have ships out, but this ship fires past them.
Also, to rule out Suicide R/S-1 Ships from the Present(Future), the ship being declared has to BE declared during the Firing Players Allocation Phase. No Surprise Attacking Police ships, etc.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 2:51pm | IP Logged
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This is silly. It makes Scorpead win every duel.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 3:14pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
| This is silly. It makes Scorpead win every duel.
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That is as unfounded a statement as you have ever made Rob. How do you figure a Scorp level 5 is going to do more damage then any other strength 5?
I looked up the Scorp 5, an ya know what? It has 3 phasers, magnified to 6 damage. So, I have to ask, how is that any different then the S-4 local Police Ship?
It has 6 phasers also. Believe me, I already did the research. The damage range is between 4 to 6 points, tops.
Even taking the comet of lore into consideration, it's still not that much of an issue.
The whole goal of this rule is to end games faster. Magic does this with Direct Damage (Fire, drain Life, etc) but GE has none.
I am sick to death of a multi-player game taking 4 hours to play. I have 22 decks and counting. It would take me 88 hours of play time to play all of my decks ONCE.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to wait 2 and a half MONTHS to be able to play all of my decks.
Back at my old MtG group, from 1pm until 12 midnight, with on average 5-7 players, we got in around 11-13 games. And that included an hour long break for dinner.
I want, no I demand GE match that. And if creating a new rule to speed games along, to keep people from turtling, and just to get the damn thing over and on to the next one, so be it.
Scorps win every time....LOL
All of my decks can handle a Scorp player rather handily... Sorry Ascher...
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Lobo
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 3:28pm | IP Logged
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-I think this would make a better custom card (to go alongside that equipment card, something array i think) to get at your opponent's HQ all stealthy-like, such as an R/O X versus a rule. As i read it, whoever goes first wins by Turn 4 and can win that turn regardless of how much meat i try putting between me and the other guy.
Yes, you can still blow up their ships, TIme Skip, Hazard, Monster, etc. but if i get poor draws that ship i have in my reserve to hold you off would be worthless.
If you want to try it out, great and i hope it works well for you, but i wouldn't play in a scenario with this as a rule. As a card, or perhaps altering the rule to not allow this until Turn 3 and/or only one ship per turn being eligible, i see as more reasonable and less game-breaking.
With this rule you've basically replaced Mega-draw (which, if i remember correctly, you restricted certain cards to prevent from taking over the game landscape) with a rule mechanic that wins the game every time. As i said, to each their own, i just wouldn't play with it as a rule. Have fun with it, talk later.....Lobo
Edited by Lobo on 15 November 2007 at 3:51pm
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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I don't think making it easier to score direct damage to a sector HQ is a good idea for GE.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
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Why not? Other then ship damage there is no other way to score damage, but I know of 3 cards that let you repair damage. Talk about an imbalance.
I think players should be allowed to use Non-Economic Repair Points (Not Healing Points) to fix their Sector HQs. That would help balance out the game, in all fairness.
As to Lobo's issues: Yes, I'd add the Turn 3 restriction, but I don't see how someone could win consecutively with this add on.
Remember, when the ship is played, it has to wait a turn before it can fire at the SHQ. And since only ships Strength 5 or less can do this, when people see an S-5 or less hit the table, how likely are they to let it live until its next fire phase?
Plus, you have to remember Command Limit. Even in a 4+ player game, you run into that limit. Remember, only a small handful of S-5's have Command Points. (In the stock game, only the Vektrean Hvy Cruiser (S-5) has a Cmd Pt.)
In a duel, it wouldn't even be an issue as to how well this would work.
If your opponent hasn't kept you down to one and a half ships by turn 4, he deserves to die.
GE is too much about back and forth. I want to see that tilted one way or the other.
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Drakmoore
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 4:28pm | IP Logged
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Way to make O4 Suicide Mission a pointless card.
O4 Suicide Mission
-Played to a ship of equal or lesser strength in play against a fleet.
Allows the ship to fire its unmodified weapons directly at the Sector
HQ or Psy network of that fleet. -Discard the ship when this is done.
-Discarded after use.
(And yes I know this is what you go the inspiration from, but why make a card into a rule?)
Edited by Drakmoore on 15 November 2007 at 4:33pm
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 4:56pm | IP Logged
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Because like many of the good ideas the card designers had with GE, they missed out on making improvements to cards they already had.
Now, if this O-4 were offered in an O-7 and an O-9, that would be grand, and this rules idea wouldn't be required.
But, unlike the card, my version has more controls then this does. With a few well played cards, I can get a local police ship to kill an opponent in one volley, and do at least 30 damage.
A simple Cat rep on the suicide ship will finish off a player toot suite. Having Police ships in a Scorp deck gives that lowly ship a damage potential of over 30 points. S-4 + Future Ship + x3 Magnifier= 36pts
Edited by werewolflht65 on 15 November 2007 at 4:56pm
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:01pm | IP Logged
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werewolflht65 wrote:
But, unlike the card, my version has more controls then this does. With a few well played cards, I can get a local police ship to kill an opponent in one volley, and do at least 30 damage.
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The card and your "rules" both use the unmodified weapons fire. How are you getting 30 damage?
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:21pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
werewolflht65 wrote:
But, unlike the card, my version has more controls then this does. With a few well played cards, I can get a local police ship to kill an opponent in one volley, and do at least 30 damage.
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The card and your "rules" both use the unmodified weapons fire. How are you getting 30 damage?
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Ok, so we can rule out Cat Rep and Phaser Magnifiers, along with Lucky Targeting. But, I can still add Phaser refits and Future ship.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:27pm | IP Logged
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No you can't, they're modifying its base weaponsfire.
And I don't see how what you're saying goes against my thoughts with the Scorpeads.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:36pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
No you can't, they're modifying its base weaponsfire.
And I don't see how what you're saying goes against my thoughts with the Scorpeads.
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Eh, wrongo... Weapon add-ons aren't modifying weapons fire. They are adding to the ship. Lucky Targeting and Cat Rep are the modifiers.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
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It would depend on your interpretation of modifying weapons fire. I consider additional weapons a modification.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:49pm | IP Logged
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They are a modification. But they are modifying the ship, not the weapons fire. That is what a Lucky Targeting and Cat Rep does.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 5:56pm | IP Logged
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Then how is your suggestion remotely balanced? It sounds like you just want the ability to make more powerplays earlier in the game. I don't see how it's fun for anyone.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:08pm | IP Logged
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What are you talking about?
Rob, just go back and re read the original posting of the rule.
Read it twice, no, read it three times. Make sure you have it clear in your mind, then come back and post a question.
The stuff you're talking about wouldn't apply to the rule I wrote.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:13pm | IP Logged
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You're talking about being able to throw 30 damage onto a Sector HQ that your opponent can't block with their ships.
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Drakmoore
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:21pm | IP Logged
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I agree that its a shame there was no chance to make more of those cards, they are a great idea with little practical use, but I can't see the use in making it so easy to kill an opponent. There are enough ways to kill people that direct HQ damage isn't needed. I mean optional rules are always a fun idea, having themes and play types is cool, but to make a good rule it shouldn't make any card useless or any strategy worthless(unless it hinges upon a miss print or something that must be broken for game balance). GE has a limited selection of cards that will most likely never expand so why limit the possibilities we have?
Edited by Drakmoore on 15 November 2007 at 6:21pm
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:26pm | IP Logged
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Oook, thanks for that random bit of Political speak Drak...
The facts are in the posts. Rob is missing the big picture, and he's again, only reading what he wants to.
You're about two posts short of the whole conversation Robpro.
Start from the beginning, and THEN you'll see what I was trying to explain. I am not responding to anymore of your posts until you acknowledge that you've read it ALL.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:33pm | IP Logged
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I've read this thread several times, there's no need to insult my intelligence. I think you need to clarify exactly what you're getting at with this rule, because it is completely unnecessary and unbalanced.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:40pm | IP Logged
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Not exactly insulting your intelligence, just trying to get you to understand.
The 30 points of damage stems from the already in print O-4 Suicide Mission.
With the rule I am proposing, the damage is more like 4-6 with 9 being the max (and that is counting the x3 mag for Scorps.)
If you note, the rule doesn't allow cards to be played to the ship on the suicide mission, like Phaser refits and future ship. The card does.
Nuff said. Verc and I will playtest it later. If anyone wants to, feel free.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:44pm | IP Logged
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I really don't think it's a good idea. There's no reason not to have all your ships go for the enemy Sector HQ everytime. It'll even draw you cards which speeds up your win.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:53pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
| I really don't think it's a good idea. There's no reason not to have all your ships go for the enemy Sector HQ everytime. It'll even draw you cards which speeds up your win.
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If memory serves, I restricted the 'rule' to ships of strength 5 and under.
And that means the normal strength of 5 or less, not an S-10 with 5 points of structural damage.
::sighs:: Like leading horses to water...
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RobPro
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 6:58pm | IP Logged
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So what stops me from running all ships less than strength 5 and doing this every turn? Or with patrol ships?
Maybe having an O9 Suicide Mission card would be an interesting idea, but I don't think it should be something you can do every turn.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 7:28pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
So what stops me from running all ships less than strength 5 and doing this every turn? Or with patrol ships?
Maybe having an O9 Suicide Mission card would be an interesting idea, but I don't think it should be something you can do every turn.
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Like I said, Verc and I will be play-testing this. Besides, against a normal GE deck, a "Starter Deck" build will get you killed. With nothing stronger then Str-5, you'd lose.
I can almost guarantee that...
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Matchbox
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 8:14pm | IP Logged
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-The ship may not have a Natural (Unmodified) Strength higher then 5.
-No crew or equipment cards may be in play on the ship so declared. Cards played against the ship in reaction do not count against this.
now ya got me confused werewolf, isnt the future ship an equipment? according to your rule there no crew or equipment can be played on it.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 November 2007 at 9:16pm | IP Logged
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Someone please, just shoot me now...
::sighs deeply::
If you people insist on making comments, at least have the decency to READ THE WHOLE DAMNED THREAD!!!
Christ on the damned cross, some of you shouldn't even be playing this damned game, I think it's slightly ahead of your time. I understand there's a Parcheesi tournament website about 3 clicks to the left...
And another thing, give Hooked on Phonics one more try... Ya never know, you might actually graduate from junior high now...
(Note, these last rants aren't directed at any ONE person in particular, but more at the group as a whole. Stupid questions infuriate me, and I react in this manner all the time, just ask Verc.)
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Galactic Empires : Rules Base
Topic: A new rule for debate and discussion
