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werewolflht65
Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 780
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 1:46pm | IP Logged
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MogwaiSC wrote:
Hey, no problem. I'm just trying to think of ways to resolve things here
that allows a rational and logical distinction to be made to cover
multiple different events based on context. That usually adds to the
complexity of the game, and sometimes I don't like doing that. The
game is complex enough as it is.
In any case, I'm just trying to help a consensus emerge here. On the
one hand the simpler solution, because it requires less interpretation
and possible confusions in the kinds of things that could happen in the
game, is your interpretation. Frankly, I'm for simple solutions that are
clear cut, so I personally would side with you.
On the other hand, it could be argued either way, so I'm just trying to
help out here. I think the easiest solution would be to take a vote. My
play group generally tends to abide by the consensus decisions and
ruling that are made here, so it's sort of motivated self interest. :D |
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So, enjoying the cards?
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 2:12pm | IP Logged
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I'm fine with Geko's ruling, I sort of thought the E8 was supposed to be an exception to the rule as far as things like this go.
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 3:57pm | IP Logged
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WEll Mogwia, you confused me with your answer unto itself you say yes but no but then agiain perhaps , but not my choice...
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 11:01pm | IP Logged
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Wolfie, the cards are great... :D I'm still waiting to get time to work them
into a deck.
EP: I thought I made it clear, I prefer Wolfie's interpretation. It simply
makes things cleaner and easier. It avoids the future complications of
dealing with this with other possible combinations of cards and actions,
etc.
What my original post was about, was trying to draw a distinction between
the uses of "copy" and "duplicate" that seemed to be at the heart of the
disagreement and find a way to clarify them so a resolution could be
reached by those discussing the issue.
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Tarquon
Exalted
Joined: 02 January 2007
Posts: 197
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 11:28pm | IP Logged
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Well, this is the rule from the interface
- The ship on which it is played and all accompanying cards function as
if there were 2 such stacks of cards for all purposes.
and some time knights
- At owner's choice, any <whatever> card played to location is treated
as if two such cards were played there.
that leads me to think that cards with this sort of wording would have a
bad effect on persona cards. This seems to follow the distinction Mogwai
made. These are card duplication rules.
The clone, mimes and infiltrator, however, duplicate the functions of
a card, not the card itself. I would rule that this is permitted with no bad
side effects to persona.
persona is a card class indicated by the minitext 'Persona'. As RobPro
pointed out, this is an 'trait' of a card and not a function or ability of the
card. I don't know of any cards that explicitly duplicate card class, but I
think class would be included in a card duplication.
After going through this whole thread I would rule that the interface
would behave as Wolfy described - the original persona must be
discarded. Same for the time knights with the duplicating ability but
since it is an optional rule (at owner's - not controllers? - choice) I would
never expect it to happen. I agree with Geko's reading for the other
issues discussed in this thread.
sidenote: the interface states that the cards function as
if there were 2 such stacks. You could argue that there is not actually
another stack of cards, the first stack just functions as if there were, and
since persona (class) is not a function it's not duplicated. My response
would be that weapons fire is not a function either, but that is certainly
duplicated. And the interface also sates for all purposes and to me
that is fancy talk for card duplication. Just my opinion and I'm glad to be
rid of.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 11:30pm | IP Logged
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Tarquon, Geko said my interpretation was wrong.
However, he pointed out that the E8 doesn't put any new cards into play but makes the stack function as if there were a "mirror stack," which gets around the issue of personas.
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Biegel
Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007
Location: Christmas Island
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 4:54am | IP Logged
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As I see it from a newbees point of veiw. Card rules override Game rules. I feel the last card played dictates the rule for the moment.Future card play could change this. I would feel that a clone played would negatate the wording on the personna for the time that clone was the last card played. Future cards played aginst the clone may change change the rule. What would happen to the personna would depend on that.
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vuros
Acolyte
Joined: 03 August 2006
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 10:59pm | IP Logged
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imo any time clone would copy a persona it would pop the persona because theres an actual card there but E8 mechad interface theres no actal cards there so no pop on the persona... only a metaphorical mechanical copy
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werewolflht65
Exalted
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 1:02am | IP Logged
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I guess the real issue is, does the "Second Stack" get treated like the actual cards, or is it just 'there'...
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 26 November 2007 at 8:52am | IP Logged
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Well, that's my point with the "mirror" stack. You can't do a TNB mission to it. So, no, it isn't functionally a second stack of cards.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 12:08pm | IP Logged
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Gekonauak wrote:
| Well, that's my point with the "mirror" stack. You can't do a TNB mission to it. So, no, it isn't functionally a second stack of cards. |
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Ok, so it wouldn't violate the Persona issue.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 1:21pm | IP Logged
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which is why I "ruled" the way I did.
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Tarquon
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Joined: 02 January 2007
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| Posted: 27 November 2007 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| Well, that's my point with the "mirror" stack. You can't do a TNB
mission to it. So, no, it isn't functionally a second stack of cards. |
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according to the card text, it does function as a second stack.
And I could imagine that the phrase "for all purposes" would cover card class.
Geko, why is TNB a consideration?
same extreme flavor ruling as the primordial warrior's "immune to everything"
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 30 November 2007 at 3:54pm | IP Logged
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After thinking about this, I probably got this one wrong.
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werewolflht65
Exalted
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| Posted: 30 November 2007 at 11:57pm | IP Logged
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No, the "treated as a second such stack" doesn't create cards, it's just an illusion. I wouldn't allow it to trigger persona discarding events anyway.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Galactic Empires : Rules Base
Topic: Interfacing singularities
