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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 19 October 2007 at 5:24pm | IP Logged
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Presumably, since I got out of and back into Magic 5 times, the last time digging myself a nice bit of credit card debt just to catch up.
As it stands now though, MDM decks still rule the roost, either in Duels (Where they decimate their opponents) and in Masters level games.
In a flat out, GE 2.0 game, no other deck, short of a Speed Comedy Club deck, has a chance. But CCN was a broken set when it appeared, and not making installations count as Units was a H*U*G*E mistake on the company's part.
They should have either a) Followed in MtG's footsteps, and made it as a joke set, or b) Just made it non tourney legal, except in CCN vs CCN duels. But, chalk that one up to another foible of the great C. Henry Schultz..
::sigh:: I love GE, I love GE, I love GE... I keep telling myself I love the game, but it still doesn't help fix the broken issues..
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 20 October 2007 at 2:37am | IP Logged
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werewolflht65 wrote:
| Well, then your group can play it any way you feel like. |
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I can, and do. And so can you, and anyone else. My point was that your interpretation of the actual rules was wrong; if you wish to keep using your misinterpretation as a house rule, that's fine. It's not a bad house rule, but it is a house rule, and isn't how the RAW actually works.
werewolflht65 wrote:
| Me personally, I'm done trying to fix a broken game. The game is a mess, and no amount of bandaging is going to fix it. |
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When you misunderstand some of the basic principles of the game (such as what Card Damage actually is) I think maybe you should question your own ability to actually judge the "brokenness" of the game.
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Eric B. Smith
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 20 October 2007 at 6:48am | IP Logged
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Dude, you're kicking a dead horse. I have checked with others, and they agree that P-Shields stop all CARD damage, regardless of the source.
The B-1 and B-3 were printed first in Series A & B and then in Primary, and they were never updated with the Universe Edition.
If you want to play Strict Constructionist, like Harry Dangro does, feel free. It doesn't mean however, that the rest of us have to. Those of us with a more open mind toward what the designers intended versus what was actually in print are two wildly different things.
Also, try to remember that GE wasn't some huge operation, with lots of folks giving feedback on issues, and then a team of designers sitting down and fixing the issues. GE was just THREE (3) guys. And two of those guys never took the feedback they did get seriously. Only George Henne had a brain and realized (Too late, I might add) what was wrong, and that changes needed to be made.
And, my last word on the subject of broken game is this: While you can stock 10-20 cards in your deck to counter Mega-Draw Madness, that deck format only really works in DUELS. In an open table game of 4+ people, the first time you play an Alliance Treaty and draw cards, the other players gang up and gank you. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Remember, GE is first and foremost a "Multi-Player Game". It even says so in the rule book.
Again, this is my last word on this subject. Responses will be ignored.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 20 October 2007 at 7:05am | IP Logged
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werewolflht65 wrote:
| I have checked with others, and they agree that P-Shields stop all CARD damage, regardless of the source. |
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"Others" not including, you know, everyone on these forums who bothered to respond, including Geko (the last company rep around these parts).
werewolflht65 wrote:
| The B-1 and B-3 were printed first in Series A & B and then in Primary, and they were never updated with the Universe Edition. |
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Correct, and they were never errated either. Which, by the rules, means their original wording stands. You can argue intent, or argue brokenness, or argue whatever. Fact still remains, the RAW flat out disagree with your interpretation.
EDIT: The the real issue that sticks in my craw - that you flat out refuse to even admit that you're interpretation goes against RAW. When backed into a corner the best defense to your interpretation you have is "I asked others and they agree with me" followed by "I quit this thread."
Edited by ericbsmith on 20 October 2007 at 7:36am
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Eric B. Smith
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 20 October 2007 at 7:10am | IP Logged
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::sigh:: Then, lucky for me, you aren't someone that I have to play with/against in GE. Unless you live in New Jersey, which you don't.
Interpret them anyway you like, I said I am done with this issue.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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bignea
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| Posted: 20 October 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged
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My 2 cents would be i have been playing since the early 90s and i'm still coming up with new card combos and strageties.
I think this game is a great game, i do'nt get bored with it becuase there's always somthing new you can do and deal with. The only thing we do different is the promos, we use the 1 in 25 rule for deck stocking and it works great. Other than that we go by the rules on the card and everything works out, yes we come up with some rule conflicks from time to time but this forum usually clears things up and we move on.
I think we look into the rules or interp a little to far sometimes, trying to squeek something out that is'nt there. I think if we keep to the basics of the game it would be just fine.
Like i said before if it does'nt say something on the card, then it does'nt. keep it simple and have fun.
I could say more but do'nt have the time and do'nt want to blable on, just keep the game going and have fun.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 21 October 2007 at 7:21pm | IP Logged
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This thread and the inflexible arguing going on in it, and the inability of
people to accomodate other's views, and insist that their interpretation,
and only their interpretation is correct, is exactly why I only read the
threads here, and no longer bother to contribute.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 21 October 2007 at 7:56pm | IP Logged
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MogwaiSC wrote:
This thread and the inflexible arguing going on in it, and the inability of
people to accomodate other's views, and insist that their interpretation,
and only their interpretation is correct, is exactly why I only read the
threads here, and no longer bother to contribute. |
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I miss your posts. :(
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 21 October 2007 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
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Don't let mindless bickering keep you away. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one (And some people are them) and it's the nature of our free society to express how you feel, safe from repercussions.
Besides, I already made it clear I was done arguing about the P-shields.
:)
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 22 October 2007 at 9:23am | IP Logged
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okay, I have a LOT to reply to:
Come on Geko, you know that's a crock... How many custom cards, built by players and sold to the public, are there in Magic the Gathering?
ZERO. And yet Magic is still around.
There are multiple reasons for this. MtG is the best two player ccg out there, still is. MtG had better financial backing than GE did. Trust me, I know the story behind both companies. As you said GE wasn't some huge operation. There were 6 of us total.
Origins 96. There were some 80 people there, buying and playing GE. It was very popular
It was popular. But, it was never hugely popular. It was way too complex for the average gamer. Look at the success of Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pirates for exaples of games that were much simpler and a lot more popular. Just because there were 80 people playing doesn't mean much when successful games had over 300 people playing.
Custom cards doomed GE to an early grave, whether it be from mismanagement at the corporate level or from a loss of player base.
No, i'd say the lack of players doomed the game, because if GE had the players it would never have needed to create the custom cards. The custom cards were only created to keep the game afloat. We certainly wouldn't have done it if we didn't have to.
As it stands now though, MDM decks still rule the roost, either in Duels (Where they decimate their opponents) and in Masters level games.
As, I've said multiple times. It is the player not the cards that make MDM an illness.
That and I will gladly face down ANY MDM deck in a duel. And win.
Dude, you're kicking a dead horse. I have checked with others, and they agree that P-Shields stop all CARD damage, regardless of the source.
Those of us with a more open mind toward what the designers intended versus what was actually in print are two wildly different things.
Who are these others that you speak of? Speaking as one of the designers. I have to tell you, you are incorrect. We actually designed cards with different thoughts in mind. We also had several groups of playtesters.
And regardless of what we might or might not have intended the wordings to say, you would still have to go by what it says on the card.
But, chalk that one up to another foible of the great C. Henry Schultz..
First it is Schulte. Second, both George and myself were making the rules as well (in fact, Carl did not design the Installations), and lastly... (see next post)
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 22 October 2007 at 9:30am | IP Logged
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And two of those guys never took the feedback they did get seriously. Only George Henne had a brain and realized (Too late, I might add) what was wrong, and that changes needed to be made.
We always took our feedback seriously, but i think you might be missing the whole object of the game.
We were fixing the MDM, but ran out of time. Besides it really didn't develop into a strategy until the company was already dissolving.
And, I'd be real careful on how you word your comments in the future. One could interpret that to say that *I* do not have a brain.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 22 October 2007 at 7:40pm | IP Logged
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Ok, looking at the Universe 2.0 Rulebook, It is safe to say that you aren't any of the following peeps from the Rules Team: Tony Medici, Vince Bieksha, George T Henne, Carl Shulte, and Alan Gopin.
Tony is nowhere to be found, presumed to be in Africa.
Vince is alive, but in not so good health, still in Clark, NJ.
George T Henne has been mentioned by name several times, and would have responded to my posts via PM.
And Alan Gopin walked away from GE quite disillusioned when Companion dissolved. No one has heard from him since.
So, that leaves: Ted Peer, Andrew Smith, Tim Moyer, Richard Petersen, and John Fitzpatrick.
So, via PM, who are you?
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 22 October 2007 at 11:30pm | IP Logged
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No need for PM, I think. He hasn't exactly tried to hide his identity. Geko is Andrew Smith - I've never tried to confirm that, though I have no reason to doubt it either. In his older posts (under Geko instead of Gekonauak) he used his real name as a signature. For some reason he couldn't log into his old account and had to create the new one (the website has had it's share of problems, since Bullington is essentially a non-participant here).
Edited by ericbsmith on 22 October 2007 at 11:34pm
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Eric B. Smith
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 23 October 2007 at 8:18am | IP Logged
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War Veteran, Geko, Gekonauak... they are all the same person.
No, I've never tried to hide the fact of who I am. I have always said that I was one of the lead designers of the game (from Advanced Tech on). And, I thought you would have figured it out when you said GE was only 3 guys. You know it wouldn't be Carl posting. George, you say, would have contacted you via PM. That would only leave me.
Edited by Gekonauak on 23 October 2007 at 8:36am
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 23 October 2007 at 8:22am | IP Logged
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Tony is not in Africa. He is in upstate NJ, where he has always been.
I actually see Alan maybe once a year or so at GenCon.
George isn't online much, we communicate infrequently via email. He is still in upstate NY, with his wife and kid. I visit him, maybe, once a year, to see how he is doing.
Edited by Gekonauak on 23 October 2007 at 8:38am
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werewolflht65
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Hmm, Ok. Vince says Tony is in Africa. And this is a recent admission from him (As in told to me when I picked up all the cards.)
So, Mr. Smith, assuming you have a brain, and I am sure you do, what say you about why Companion folded?
Quite a few of the people previously mentioned all point fingers at the top. Others claim the company dug itself an early grave by printing too many cards of the sets, thus digging a huge financial grave.
I don't really care, one way or the other, but it would be nice to hear the truth from someone in management.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 23 October 2007 at 9:01am | IP Logged
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Tony did *GO* to Africa, but he wasn't there more than a month. I haven't spoken to him since June, so maybe he has gone back, but I sincerely doubt that he moved there.
Well, let's just say that we did not overprint any of the card sets, at least not while I was onboard.
The early sets I can't speak for.
There was a problem with the Primary set. The printer screwed the company out of a lot of money.
But, I think the reason that Companion and GE died was that there just wasn't enough players playing. It had a strong following, a bunch of rabid fans, that continued to buy more and more, but just not as wide-based as necessary to sustain a CCG.
A lot of it had to do with the artwork from the early sets, people saw it and were immediately turned off. And didn't give it a second chance. THe artwork definately improved, cooincedently when I became Art Director :) in the later sets.
Also, the game was overly complex for no reason whatsoever. The deck stocking rules are a prime example of this.
However, I still think GE is the best multi-player CCG ever to have been published. And, I have come across a LOT of CCG in my job/lifetime.
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Galaktische
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As an interested observer I'd like to hear more about the history of Companion games. I met Carl at GenCon once when the games was young and thriving. I'm sad that the game didn't work out.
I wish there was an active Sci-Fi oriented game that wasn't tied to some stupid license. I never really enjoyed the Decipher game and I can't remember any other Sci-Fi CCG.
Wasn't there a Warhammer 40k game?
J--
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Gekonauak
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Yes, there was. There was also a Star Wars CCG, Star Trek, Mechwarrior, and Stargate.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 23 October 2007 at 11:48am | IP Logged
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Well, Battletech. Geo and I got in in Alpha, having learned our lessons from Magic, and missing out on the early stuff. Unfortunately, it was nearly as complicated as GE was, and only had a following of people who played the board/table game.
I played the Star Trek (Next Gen) card game, and wasn't impressed. The artwork was screenshots from the shows, but game play suffered.
Geo and I are still looking at GE, and trying to see what fundamental change would be needed to fix the game. The stacking rule is one of the problems, as is the whole strength versus rarity problem.
We will keep you all posted.
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Gekonauak
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well, if you are interested in GE, instead of working to fix it, how about trying to find out who has the license. The bancrupcy is on file in Albany, NY.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 23 October 2007 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
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Ok, that is good to know. Any idea who bought the license, or would that be on file with the bankruptcy records?
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Gekonauak
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nobody actually bought it. It was awarded, and the owner would be onfile.
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werewolflht65
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Cool. Now, if I could just find out that info without having to drive all the way to Albany.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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Gekonauak
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you can. You can do it online and through the mail (I think).
There is a fee involved (small).
I am pretty sure Eric lives in upstate NY. Eric how far are you from Albany?
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ericbsmith
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Gekonauak wrote:
| I am pretty sure Eric lives in upstate NY. Eric how far are you from Albany? |
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I live in Binghamton, which is about 140 miles away from Albany.
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Eric B. Smith
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werewolflht65
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I'll put a road trip together when I have the money to acquire the license.
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Gekonauak
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Ummm... I sincerly doubt that the owner of the license lives in Albany. Just FYI.
You might have to plan two trips.
One to Albany to see who owns the license.
And the second to the midwest somewhere to acquire it.
good luck.
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werewolflht65
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Either way, I'll make the effort. It's worth it to own the rights just so we can take a consensus of the forum and redo some of the more messed up rules/cards.
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Eaglepreacher
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The only "fix" for the rules/cards is to reprint the whole thing. Sorry to say it would fail miserably in my opinion. The card gaming is onthe way out as it gets too bulky and expensive for many. If it were to become computerized I would say it has a far better chance
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Galactic Empires : Rules Base
Topic: Shields
