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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 11 October 2007 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
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#1: Accelerated Time Line
#2: Alliance Treaty
#3: Cyber Anything (Mage, Dragoness, and Implant)
#4: Discard Equivalency
#5: Reactionary World
#6: O-6 Tech Breakthrough
#7: O-8 Tech Breakthrough
#8: Temporal Engineer
#9: Holographic Simulator
Any questions?
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 8:00am | IP Logged
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If you agree that a promoted cybermage still gives only a single extra card play/draw then the cyber cards aren't that bad. I always liked the CM competition, but not with the broken combo.
oh, I would outright ban the marine depot, spy planets and the c5/5. but that's just me.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 9:13am | IP Logged
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I agree with Tarquon, those three cards just aren't fun.
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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what is the point of restricting the cyber mages. even if you have 30 out only one gets one card draw.
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Aramax
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 1:03pm | IP Logged
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Eaglepreacher wrote:
| what is the point of restricting the cyber mages. even if you have 30 out only one gets one card draw. |
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What he said
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
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It's a problem with the doubly promoted cyberdroid with spiritual leadership. one extra play & draw is not the problem, 4+ extra is. Some time ago in this forum we came to the general opinion that no matter what you did to a cybermage it never could provide more than 1 extra, but that thread is sadly lost.
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bignea
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 4:56pm | IP Logged
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I do'nt know, card combos are part of the game and it makes it fun for the player of course, but remember there is always a card out there that can stop those combos. As long you do'nt put the combos in the reserve right away i do'nt have a problem with it, you need to work for them.
I do agree on the cards that tarquon listed we do'nt play them either.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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I only stock Katryn because I know George has it in his deck(s).
About 100,000 Rares, Very Rares, Entities and Promo cards fell into my lap today.
I'll be busy for awhile sorting through them. As for the Promos: If it says Cards UnLTD or Anthony Medici on them, I have them. ALL of them.
Come Tuesday or so, I'll be taking requests for orders.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 7:16pm | IP Logged
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The collective interpretation of the CM rules was not made to restrict the
card draws/plays, it was simply a careful examination of the rules as printed
on the card. The CM rules were not changed, just re-examined and as a
result changed from how many people had been playing them to that time.
As I remember the conclusion, the precise wording of the card play/draw
rule on the CM cards makes it non-duplicative. I would suggest a new
thread on this topic if anyone wants to discuss.
The point of these restricted cards seems to be to reduce the potential of
megadraw madness and thus make other strategies more viable. For that
reason, I like the restrictions, even though I think the cyber cards (as now
played) are OK.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 12 October 2007 at 8:01pm | IP Logged
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It may or may not stay on the restricted list. Sure, there are crew killers out there, but I don't know.
I think we may take it off, but give it the entity ability. No reserve fleet
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 15 October 2007 at 9:20am | IP Logged
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i'll be back to comment on this. I don't have any more time today.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 15 October 2007 at 11:00am | IP Logged
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We redid the Power Nine, replacing the Cyber Mage with the Promotion.
The Mage wasn't the problem, it was the Promotion.
We also replaced the Holo-Sim with the E-7 Cloning Device. A far worse card then Holo-Sim
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Drakmoore
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 9:23am | IP Logged
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Why not make a forum vote? Everyone has their own opinion, but if you take it from the top 25-50 most wrong/nasty cards and all vote on what needs to stay and leave then you should get a pretty fair list. Not saying any one person is wrong or right for any reason, everyone has had different experiences. In the end though the only reason for restricted lists is to keep the game fun and to stop total shut down combos, thus everything on the list should be either KEY combo cards or very very hard to get way overpowered cards. That may suck for those who have combo decks or the rare card, but it makes it easier for everyone to like the game in general. Since its just a restriction, NOT a ban, you still can put SOME in your deck and when the list gets to be more widely accepted it will be easier trade/sell/give to those who are just trying it out because you won't need as many. I think this will help make a bigger society for this "dead" game we all love.
Edited by Drakmoore on 24 October 2007 at 9:26am
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 10:54am | IP Logged
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Well, we tried that, but all it lead to was arguments amongst us. So, we did away with it, except for the Reactionary World.
Restricted Lists are for Magic. They never existed in GE.
We'll keep it that way. I used to think the MDM deck was a problem, but after a 150 card Tufor Mine deck shutdown a 220 card dedicated MDM deck, I am a new believer.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
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yAy!!!
Who showed you the light? I must reward that person! ;)
MDM is not an illness that can't be cured. It really is the player, not the cards that are at fault.
And a well designed deck, especially in a duel should be able to handle it.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:00pm | IP Logged
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Now, if only I can convince everyone that RW is not that bad.
:)
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RobPro
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:09pm | IP Logged
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What are your thoughts on...
1) Aesthetic Marine Depot - We've taken away the clone/transporter ability.
2) The Spy Worlds - We just think their function takes away from the fun of the game, we don't play with them.
3) C5/5 Time Knight - I think you're fine with how the card is, but we've errata'd it to only affect stacks in your own fleet.
Aside from these cards and making RW a prototype, we play the rules how they're written.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:29pm | IP Logged
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I agree with taking away the clone ability for the Marine Depot. It can have the transporter ability, that sort of fits.
The Spy Worlds aren't fun, but I wouldn't restrict/change them.
The C5/5, I think is overrated. He is a devistating card some of the time, but most of the time, do I really care where my cybermage is located? I have to protect his location (and him) regardless of where he is in the fleet.
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 2:15pm | IP Logged
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For those who want to restrict cards, I still say restrict the process by immutable rules. Eg No more than 7 card plays per turn .... No more than 5 cards may be retrieved from the discard pile. No more than 10 cards drawn. Per turn. Of course the numbers are arbitrary but by setting these restrictions, it cuts down the deadliest combos but allows it in various degrees keeping the game intact.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 2:43pm | IP Logged
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Eaglepreacher wrote:
| For those who want to restrict cards, I still say restrict the process by immutable rules. Eg No more than 7 card plays per turn .... No more than 5 cards may be retrieved from the discard pile. No more than 10 cards drawn. Per turn. Of course the numbers are arbitrary but by setting these restrictions, it cuts down the deadliest combos but allows it in various degrees keeping the game intact. |
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I kind of think as far as this is concerned, if the other people at the table won't step in you deserve whatever retarded combo you pull off. It's just the "one-card combos" that I don't like, the kind it is difficult/impossible to stop.
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
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Geko wrote:
| The Spy Worlds aren't fun, but I wouldn't restrict/change them. |
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If they aren't fun, and I completely agree that they aren't, then what's the point in allowing them in play? I thought the objective was to have fun?
All right, you coldblooded reptile, if you're not willing to restrict/change the spy planets then what would you restrict or change? I find it hard to believe you would keep everything as-is after 9 years of playtesting (and all the 'discussion' you've see here).
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
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While I don't dispute being cold-blooded, I do dispute being a reptile. What a snake? I like sharks better.
If I had a chance to redo the game:
I would ban the Cat Rep.
I would take away the cloning for the Marine Outpost.
I would change the promo terrain to being immune to one category of cards not two. Player gets to choose when played.
I would ban the spy cards that allow you to view my entire hand. (Yes, this contradicts what I just said.) Even the Spy from Piracy viewing 4 cards is excessive. Maybe view one random card, and the more powerful versions of the cards (strength 9s and such) to view two random cards.
I don't think spy anything is much fun, and will mock you incessantly for playing with them. They take a lot away from the game. The game becomes cut and dry. I can either kill you or you can stop it. No risk involved.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 4:02pm | IP Logged
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Please note, nothing about RW.
Oooh, I almost forgot. I would ban Time Skip, and restrict Time Warp.
Try putting 8 of each of the twins in your deck, and you will see my point about them.
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 8:00pm | IP Logged
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Good Geko! GE without skips and warps...I like it!
I don't have a problem with CatRep as long as the spy cards are redone
with your rules above. It's a gutsy play if you don't know what's in your
opponent's hand.
I think the Marine Depot should have no built-in systems, or if it does
then only a non-oscilating transporter restricted to marines only.
I like your revision to the promo terrain. I would also make the rule that
all (T) terrain takes half damage unless it has other damage-affecting
rules.
I would ban the reactionary world. That ability is inappropriate for a T -
and it's also already provided by the C1/9 time knight.
And I would restrict the C5/5 to affect only the owner's fleet.
And I would make the quantum occurence reactionary!
I see no problem with a restricted list by simply reclassifying those cards
as prototype. Agreeing on the list would be the problem.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 9:31pm | IP Logged
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Gekonauak wrote:
yAy!!!
Who showed you the light? I must reward that person! ;)
MDM is not an illness that can't be cured. It really is the player, not the cards that are at fault.
And a well designed deck, especially in a duel should be able to handle it.
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Umm, honestly, I showed myself. I decided to put together a deck that did a similar denial effect like my Monster deck does, by denying my opponent his ships/bases and then his Sector HQ.
With a few well timed mine hits, the average Indirigan capitol ship folds up and dies rather easily. Plus, the Indy's don't have Minesweepers! (Not that many people stock them into their decks. I do, but only in Mechad)
The 220 draw deck was a Gray Death deck, and all he could do was stare at his useless luck cards (He was holding a Temp Correct AND an Anomaly Portal!) as first an AM mine went off, followed by a Fusion Mine. Sayonara S-7!
The deck stocks luck, just enough to keep the ships alive, but nothing else, and then drops mines on the waiting deployment system, and then piff! No more ship.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 9:38pm | IP Logged
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Gekonauak wrote:
While I don't dispute being cold-blooded, I do dispute being a reptile. What a snake? I like sharks better.
If I had a chance to redo the game:
I would ban the Cat Rep.
I would take away the cloning for the Marine Outpost.
I would change the promo terrain to being immune to one category of cards not two. Player gets to choose when played.
I would ban the spy cards that allow you to view my entire hand. (Yes, this contradicts what I just said.) Even the Spy from Piracy viewing 4 cards is excessive. Maybe view one random card, and the more powerful versions of the cards (strength 9s and such) to view two random cards.
I don't think spy anything is much fun, and will mock you incessantly for playing with them. They take a lot away from the game. The game becomes cut and dry. I can either kill you or you can stop it. No risk involved.
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Oww! Ban Cat Rep?! That's just too harsh, and as for the whining about the Spy Worlds, I give you this, copied from Anycraze dot com, concerning a certain magic artifact, called "Glasses of Urza"
Oracle Text:
T: Look at target player’s hand.
So, even in a successful CCG like MtG, there are cards that let you see the whole hand, and a bunch that let you see a card or two.
So, I would scrap the idea of neutering Katryn and Spy Central.
Besides, it would put the R/C-1 Cryptologist out of a job, and honestly, hasn't this game cost enough people, real and imagined?
Oh, and before anyone says anything, back in the day, when 6th Edition was still around, everyone in my old MtG group stocked a pair of Glasses in their decks, just for a glimpse of what they were facing.
Peace!
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 9:45pm | IP Logged
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Tarquon wrote:
Good Geko! GE without skips and warps...I like it!
I don't have a problem with CatRep as long as the spy cards are redone
with your rules above. It's a gutsy play if you don't know what's in your
opponent's hand.
I think the Marine Depot should have no built-in systems, or if it does
then only a non-oscilating transporter restricted to marines only.
I like your revision to the promo terrain. I would also make the rule that
all (T) terrain takes half damage unless it has other damage-affecting
rules.
I would ban the reactionary world. That ability is inappropriate for a T -
and it's also already provided by the C1/9 time knight.
And I would restrict the C5/5 to affect only the owner's fleet.
And I would make the quantum occurence reactionary!
I see no problem with a restricted list by simply reclassifying those cards
as prototype. Agreeing on the list would be the problem.
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Now, I seem to recall Aramax saying something to the effect of banning certain cards, and Rob jumping on the bandwagon too. Seriously folks, here's how the problems resolve themselves:
Reactionary World: Restricted to one (1) copy per deck.
No changes to current Spy worlds. Simply run the Crypto if you hand is so super secret...
Leave the C5/5 alone. All he does is build discard piles. If you don't like it, run more Marines. Or the Mystic Wanderer. I have lost more crew to that #^@&*$ card then any other...
As for the QO, Yeah, make it an R-card, and see what new problems occur. Basically, just build normal decks. If you have a buddy who is tunnel visioned out on a MDM deck, then talk to him about his issue, or simply build more counters into your deck (Luck Demons, Time Defilers, etc)
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 24 October 2007 at 9:58pm | IP Logged
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werewolflht65 wrote:
That's just too harsh, and as for the whining about the Spy Worlds, I give you this, copied from Anycraze dot com, concerning a certain magic artifact, called "Glasses of Urza"
Oracle Text:
T: Look at target player’s hand.
So, even in a successful CCG like MtG, there are cards that let you see the whole hand, and a bunch that let you see a card or two.
So, I would scrap the idea of neutering Katryn and Spy Central.
Besides, it would put the R/C-1 Cryptologist out of a job, and honestly, hasn't this game cost enough people, real and imagined?
Oh, and before anyone says anything, back in the day, when 6th Edition was still around, everyone in my old MtG group stocked a pair of Glasses in their decks, just for a glimpse of what they were facing.
Peace!
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MtG is VERY different than GE. There's a reason why that card was run in 0 competitve decks, it gets you no advantage. In MtG, there is a maximum hand size. In GE, there isn't. Seeing cards or an entire players hand that has 12+ cards (that won't likely be discarded) is significantly more powerful than seeing 7 cards.
Also, to make the comparison more fair, the Glasses would have to generate mana, cost 0 to play, and somehow be fetchable on the first turn.
Just my thoughts.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 6:30am | IP Logged
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All of which is irrelevant. In total, you only stock 5 Spy worlds in your deck, which is one more then the maximum for Magic. Now, almost all MtG decks are 60 cards, while no GE player in their right (or wrong) minds would play with less then 100 cards. So, now we are seeing 1 Spy world per 20 cards, while we'd see a Glasses per 15 Magic cards.
Yes, you can stock Katryn in the reserve fleet, but have you played MtG lately? There must be a half dozen cards that let you go fetch whatever artifact you want.
And getting back to stocking limits, most truly competitive decks are actually around 150+ cards, so that pushes the Spy worlds even further out of reach.
Believe me, if the guys at Companion thought the Spy worlds were or would have been a problem, they wouldn't have allowed them.
Now, the Reactionary World, that they were asleep on.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 7:58am | IP Logged
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In GE there is a counter for every card, so saying a card is OK because another card "X" removes or neuters it is not very useful. The real question is how do you best enjoy the game and I suspect every group has its own rules in answer to that. There may still be some purists, but I am not one. When GE was active it was continuously evolving. In that spirit I/we still tinker with rules and cards. carpe game!
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Galactic Empires : Rules Base
Topic: The Restricted Power Nine of GE
