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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 7:10am | IP Logged
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I would keep the Command point restriction, and go with the Open
Space/Your space/Opponent space concept. Basically, you need command
limits at each of those locations to have ships in them.
Also, moving a ship from your space to open space requires a card action and ships can only do that once per turn.
Ships in your fleet only guard the HQ, and can only fire on ships
invading your fleet. Ships in Open space are free to fire on one
another without restriction.
Ships must move against terrain in order to attack it. And bases in
play on those terrain are the only units other then ships in that space
that can fire on a ship moved against that terrain.
Bases in play can only be fired at by other bases (logic here is that a
base has inherent stability, thus it has better accuracy) but can only
do so with heavy weapons. Phasers (or Seltzer cannons/Subspace Whips)
are limited to same space combat only. They can fire at any and all
ships in play against their space.
One other note: Ships in play attacking your space are immune to cards
like Temp Correct! That is the only way to make this work.
Thoughts?
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 10:34am | IP Logged
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This would make games take forever.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 10:47am | IP Logged
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First, the issue of command points and their application needs work.
How are command points applied across regions? So, if you play like we
do where you start with four command points unless you have more
players, like if you have five then you start with five command points,
how do these get applied? Do you have five command points in each
region? Or, do you have five command points total and if you want to
have more than five units total anywhere, then you need more command
points?
If you play where you have X command points in each region, then it
makes it easy to get lots of ships out as long as they don't overlap
regions. At the same time, why would your opponents get command
points in your space or open space? If your command points are total,
then you need to account for that in how you build your decks, because
command point requirements will go way up because you'll have to have
enough points and ships to be able to have them in play in both your
own space and in open/opponent space.
One way I see this changing the game is that people will tend to keep
their smaller ships in their home space for defense, because they don't
do much damage compared to how much they take to kill, where as
larger ships do more damage compared to how tough they are, so
they're more likely to be used offensively rather than defensively.
Nothing wrong with that in my opinion though... It means smaller ships
become more valuable, because of their lower command point
requirements and greater utility for soaking up damage.
With regard to firing upon opponents, I think it would be a good idea, to
continue with your line of thought, to set it up that units can only fire
from one region into the next. So if you have ships that are in your own
space defending your sector HQ, they can only fire as far as open space,
and not into other player's home space regions to attack units there or
the sector HQ. If you have units in open space, they don't protect your
sector HQ but they can attack the open and home space units of any
other opponent.
I'm not sure what you mean by "card action" to change region. Can you
clarify this? I can see there being a requirement to move from one
region to another, I'm just not sure what you mean here.
With regard to bases, I don't think the requirement they can only fire on
each other makes much sense. It would be more logical to have it be
that bases can only fire on units in your space or open space and not all
the way into opponent space. This means essentially that bases couldn't
fire on bases in other fleets at all, only at units in open space or your
space. I personally don't have a problem with that; I think it would be a
good idea. This follows from what I said above about firing from one
region to another. Also, I think that it should be allowed then that any
bases which can be played independently, for whatever reason, should
be allowed to be played in open space. So if you've got a flagstar, it
could be played in open space, since it is a base and played as a terrain,
it is played independently. Another example would be to put a
subspace stabilizer on something like a starbase and then you play it in
open space.
Here's another observation: setting it up this way creates sort of an
"access arena" play mode, where the only way to attack other players is
to enter the arena (the open space area). What about players sitting
adjacent to you vs. across the table? What if the regions were set up
such that your home space is bordered not just by open space, but also
by the home space of the players to your right and left? In this case,
ships and bases in your home space would be able to fire into the home
space of your bordering neighbors, but not those across from you on
the other side of open space. You'd need to send ships into open space
to attack them at all.
Overall, I like the idea. It would add another level of strategy to the
game to consider. It would mean a different deck building strategy as
well. It would also reduce the reliance on R cards to defend yourself,
because the game wouldn't be so heavily attrition based, and it would
also really reduce the penalty from being last in a multiplayer game.
Edited by MogwaiSC on 10 November 2007 at 10:57am
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 10:48am | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
This would make games take forever.
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The games in my group already take forever. We got together yesterday
and played from 10 am to 10 pm. We played a grand total of four games,
two of which we cut short before they were completely finished.
I'm not opposed to longer games. It adds another level of strategy to
things.
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werewolflht65
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Joined: 08 October 2007
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| Posted: 11 November 2007 at 12:38am | IP Logged
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We talked about it tonight at the weekly game and decided that a CCG is supposed to be simple, so we nixed the whole space idea.
Maybe someone else can give it a try.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Aramax
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| Posted: 12 November 2007 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
| This would make games take forever. |
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not to mention how this would interact w/ there and back missions,what about time phasers,what about monsters and hazards,this is like another 5 pages of rules-just what the game needs
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 12 November 2007 at 2:07pm | IP Logged
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Yeah, that's why we shelved the idea. The whole "there & back" issue was part of it.
Playing Hazards and such wasn't really an issue, since those cards just happen (hence the term "Occurrence").
But the reason There and Back became an issue was because some shuttles are ARMED.
It would be easy to just say that shuttles and fighters can only do there & back missions to locations in their respective space (ie-to vessels/bases/terrain that they are played near.)
Then the issue of Vacation planet came up, along with crew like Mystic Wanderer...
Like I said, too complex for a card game...
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 13 November 2007 at 7:48am | IP Logged
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It's not so much that it's too complex for the cardgame, but you would -need- card specifically printed that can only function in open space. Without some innovation of your own, it just wouldn't work.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 18 November 2007 at 6:14am | IP Logged
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Yeah, I know. We'll save it for the redo of the game, sometime around 2020...
;)
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 18 November 2007 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
It's not so much that it's too complex for the
cardgame, but you would -need- card specifically printed that can only
function in open space. Without some innovation of your own, it just
wouldn't work.
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Not necessarily. If the "one region to the next" idea I mention above is
instituted, it simplifies much of this.
For example, a there and back mission would be constrained from one
region to another, such as from your home space to open space, or from
open space to an opponent's home space.
Simply instituting this constraint resolves much of the possible problems
that can come up with using this idea.
I actually really like the idea; I think it would add a lot to the game, and
reduce some of the problems that were discussed in the "meta-game"
thread a while ago, which I mention above.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 19 November 2007 at 5:14am | IP Logged
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Still too much to keep track of for a card game. This kind of detail requires a game like F&E.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 20 November 2007 at 1:59am | IP Logged
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You think that's a lot of detail? We used to play F&E but when we had fleet
battles, we'd fight them out in a SFB game rather than with the F&E rules...
Took about a year of weekly playing to get through a single F&E game...
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 20 November 2007 at 5:24am | IP Logged
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Sounds about right. Harry and I started re-enacting the Naval battles from Red Storm Rising using the Old Harpoon Rules...
12 hours into the first battle, the surface to surface ASMs were passing each other...
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Galactic Empires : Rules Base
Topic: Your Space, Open Space
