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Biegel
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| Posted: 22 November 2007 at 3:28am | IP Logged
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How about listing the most common mistaken concepts and mistakes newbees and even ole timers make?
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 22 November 2007 at 6:43am | IP Logged
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Try the thread 'An issue with Instant Reaction". That was something that should have been spotted by a group of ole timers but was played incorrectly for years.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 22 November 2007 at 9:23am | IP Logged
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My playgroup used to think R/L8 Targeting Error let you put the volley in any fleet, but I pointed out the text on the card specifies only in the player who fired it's fleet. They said they used to play it in tournaments that way. 8)
The R/M9 Luck Demon -still- prevents negative luck cards from being played against you even if another luck demon is the most recently played one, it just doesn't let you steal the affects of all positive luck cards.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 22 November 2007 at 9:38am | IP Logged
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The Temporal Engineer only grants you his card draws when played from the hand. Instant Reacting the engineer only lets you move him to another location to save it from being destroyed/crinkled etc.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 22 November 2007 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
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A big issue that comes up a lot from what I've seen is the "played-
to/played-against" distinction. Some defensive card abilities will have
actions you can take only when a card is played against them, and will
not affect cards you play in defense in your own fleet. For example, a
Legendary Office says you can't avoid the fire from the unit he's on, but
it was ruled here quite a while ago that only means you can't do things
like play an R/L8 Targeting Error against him. It doesn't prevent you
from playing an R/L2 Repulsion Beam on your own ship that's being
fired upon by the LO's ship and then activating its card ability. It's a
subtle distinction, but the core of it is the repulsion beam is being
played to your own ship/fleet, not against the LO's ship, so you can get
away with it in that case.
Others here will probably argue with me on this, but that's how it was
ruled in open discussion here, and was supported by Geko.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 22 November 2007 at 2:37pm | IP Logged
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MogwaiSC wrote:
A big issue that comes up a lot from what I've seen is the "played-
to/played-against" distinction. Some defensive card abilities will have
actions you can take only when a card is played against them, and will
not affect cards you play in defense in your own fleet. For example, a
Legendary Office says you can't avoid the fire from the unit he's on, but
it was ruled here quite a while ago that only means you can't do things
like play an R/L8 Targeting Error against him. It doesn't prevent you
from playing an R/L2 Repulsion Beam on your own ship that's being
fired upon by the LO's ship and then activating its card ability. It's a
subtle distinction, but the core of it is the repulsion beam is being
played to your own ship/fleet, not against the LO's ship, so you can get
away with it in that case.
Others here will probably argue with me on this, but that's how it was
ruled in open discussion here, and was supported by Geko. |
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Correct. Playing something to your fleet that activates against an opponent ship/base/whatever doesn't draw the ire of the LO.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 8:49am | IP Logged
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Is *that* what I said?!?
'Cause I probably would not have said that.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 11:47am | IP Logged
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Ok, I have both of these cards in front of me, and I am reading them now.
The LO says: -All weapons fire from location cannot be negatively modified by cards played in reaction.
The Repulsion Beam says: A repulsion beam repels an opponent ship.
-Ship cannot fire weapons for 1 turn.
So, Player A, who has an LO on his ship, fires a volley at Player B.
Player B reacts with a R/E-2 Repulsion beam, affecting the ship with the LO.
The weapons fire is in essence not being modified, it is being stopped.
So, in this case, yes, the R-Beam does stop the ship with the LO from firing.
Now, if you played a Phaser malfunction or Targeting Error, those the LO would stop.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 12:15pm | IP Logged
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Gekonauak wrote:
Is *that* what I said?!?
'Cause I probably would not have said that. |
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To the best of my recollection, yes.
It's probably unavoidable that there will be differences based on what
card is being played against a card in an opponent's fleet, to a card in
your own fleet, etc. so individual instances will have to be evaluated
separately.
Another example would be an M4 Spacetacean. If my opponent fires at
me and has one in play in his fleet, then I couldn't play a Targeting Error
against him because it would be being played against his fleet. But, I
could play a Lucky Maneuver to avoid the volley because that is played
to my own fleet so the Spacetacean doesn't come into play.
My point was that in general, there is a distinction between playing
cards in reaction to your own fleet as compared to playing them against
an opponent's fleet, and that is often misunderstood or overlooked,
even by seasoned players.
Edited by MogwaiSC on 23 November 2007 at 12:16pm
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 12:18pm | IP Logged
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Exactly. Played to youe own vs Played against is a fundamental rule for GE. Understanding what is played and where it is played is the key to understanding the game.
New players often have trouble with the concept of played to or against, and as such, it falls on us 'old heads' to straighten them out.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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RobPro
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 2:14pm | IP Logged
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Targeting Error isn't played against a fleet, it's played against a volley.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
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Yep yep..
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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Same diff... it's still played against an opponent, not to your own fleet.
What I said before still stands.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 23 November 2007 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
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Not really. The card isn't played against your opponent's fleet, just a volley.
I guess the real question would be 'Is the volley in your opponents fleet?'
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 12:55am | IP Logged
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Of course it would. It has to come from the units in his fleet, so how is
that not in your opponent's fleet?
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RobPro
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 4:32pm | IP Logged
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Yes, but the volley itself isn't part of your opponents fleet. That's how I've understood it, anyways.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 5:00pm | IP Logged
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And Rob's understanding is correct...To a point.
Yes, it is a volley, but no, it can still be Temp Corrected. (The Targeting Error I mean).
Anything that's a card play that affects your fleet, can be Temp Corrected.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
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Look, the volley itself may not be a part of your opponents fleet, but it is
the result of an action taken by your opponents fleet. Still, it's the same
thing. You play cards against your opponent's fleet to stop the volley.
There's no difference.
Talk about unnecessarily splitting hairs... sheesh.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
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Ahh, you just now noticed why I get so frustrated arguing rules here, eh?
Too many of the main posters love arguing semantics more the actual rules.
That's life I guess.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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RobPro
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 7:25pm | IP Logged
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Well, in my playgroup, we said the R/M9 Luck Demon doesn't stop a targeting error because it targets -the volley- and not the fleet. The Demon only saves your fleet. This is why I make the distinction.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 9:52pm | IP Logged
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Luck Demon Stops ALL luck cards played. Read the Demon again. Sheesh, here we go again.
The player with the most recently played luck demon in play (I really HATE the wording on this card, btw) decides where all luck cards go, positive or negative.
Is the card green? Does it have an "L" in the top left corner? Ok, it's negated. I don't want to hear it. This is an R/M-9 Luck Demon. He says no, so live with it.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 10:13pm | IP Logged
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Wolfy, I suggest you read the cards before posting. Here is the text off my Universe-edition R/M9 Luck Demon.
====================================================
-All luck cards played by opponents on their own fleets may instead be immediately played by the player possessing the most recently played luck demon in play.
-All luck cards played by opponents against the fleet are ignored(discarded) unless the luck demon player wants it played there.
-Destroyed by research equal to its strength.
====================================================
This doesn't allow the luck demon player to negate luck cards I play in my own fleet, and an R/L8 Targeting Error is played against the volley, not a fleet.
So the best you can do is say it's played in my own fleet, and the Luck Demon player gets to decide where the R/L8 TE hits him.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 11:12pm | IP Logged
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I'm sorry Rob, Wolfie is right and you're unnecessarily splitting hairs based
on the unfortunate wording of the card text. Don't be a rules-lawyer. You
cannot affect the volley coming from the fleet without affecting the fleet,
it's simple logic. By your argument, no card that redirects weapons fire
would ever work because it's affecting the volley and not the fleet.
Anything that is caused by an action of a unit in a fleet, or multiple units in
the fleet, will be affected by cards played against the fleet, otherwise they
can't affect anything. It's simple logic.
Also, the Luck Demon says ALL luck cards, that trumps anything else in
the text of the card. ALL means every luck card there is, regardless of
what the text of the card says.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 24 November 2007 at 11:50pm | IP Logged
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I can't have a discussion with you guys if you won't read the cards. I'm sorry.
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 12:16am | IP Logged
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Rob, you may want to read the FAQ's before going off on a tangent yourself. Specifically, from the GE FAQ I have posted on my website (but was one of the original ones available in HTML, and untouched by me except to add card art):
FAQ wrote:
| Where are cards played: <snip> Cards affecting things other than
cards (weapons fire, opponents' card plays, etc.) are played to the owning
player's fleet. |
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So... the Targeting Error is played not against the Weapons Volley, but to your own fleet. Which only makes sense - cards are either played to or against another card or to or against a fleet. They are never played against a "card action," "weapons volley," or other such concept.
Luck Demon wrote:
| - All luck cards played by opponents on their own fleets may instead be
immediately played by the player possessing the most recently played luck
demon in play. |
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Targeting Error wrote:
| - Player using this card redesignates one opponent weapons volley to a
ship, base, or Sector HQ also belonging to firing player. Discarded
after use. |
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My interpretation:
The Targeting Error is played to your own fleet. The Luck Demon allows the owning player to play the card himself, instead of you. So, if the Luck Demon is the player who's firing the weapons volley, there is no opponent weapons volley to redirect so the Luck Demon is voided - it "fizzles." If another player owns the Luck Demon, he may designate where the weapons fire goes himself.
Edited by ericbsmith on 25 November 2007 at 1:12am
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Eric B. Smith
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 12:43am | IP Logged
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As I said before, he who controls the most recent LD in play decides where all the green cards go.
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
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RobPro
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 12:57am | IP Logged
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But Eric, wouldn't the player owning the luck demon pass priority on being able to use the card, since he (or she) cannot, which then puts it back onto the owning player? The TE says it's discarded after use, but it hasn't been used if it doesn't perform its function.
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 1:07am | IP Logged
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No, see the section in the FAQ on Voided Card Actions and Card Plays.
FAQ wrote:
Any time a card play or action is no longer legal, it is voided. Any time
an action is voided, the card action is still considered used for that turn.
When an action is voided, the card is discarded if normally discarded
after use. Cards not normally discarded remain in play. |
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The Luck Demon still allows me to take the TE and play it as
if I played the card myself. With no legal target, the card action is voided
and discarded.
If I own the Luck Demon, and you play the TE on me while I'm firing a Volley there is no Opponent Volley for me to use the TE against (since TE specifically states it affects an opponent volley). It's voided and discarded.
Now, if I own the Luck Demon and you play the TE on Wolf, I can use the Luck Demon to take the TE and play it myself - but only on Wolf, since he's the only opponent currently firing a volley. Basically, it would allow me to direct the fire where I want it to go, not where you want it to go.
Edited by ericbsmith on 25 November 2007 at 1:18am
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Eric B. Smith
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RobPro
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 1:25am | IP Logged
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Alright, gotcha.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 25 November 2007 at 1:39am | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
I can't have a discussion with you guys if you won't read
the cards. I'm sorry.
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I'm not trying to be an ass here Rob, but methinks you spoke too soon
here.
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Galactic Empires : News and Misc.
Topic: Mistaken Concepts
