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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 29 November 2007 at 1:00pm | IP Logged
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okay, let's list the top 25 cards for a Scorpead deck.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 29 November 2007 at 1:25pm | IP Logged
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All the Scorp ships S5 and higher.
E7 Extreme Phaser Refits
E9 Future Ship
Anything that makes your phaser fire reactionary.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 29 November 2007 at 1:41pm | IP Logged
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Like what cards that make your phaser fire reactionary?
Do these cards work with the phaser magnifiers?
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Matchbox
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| Posted: 29 November 2007 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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the scorpead comet of lore, scorpead dominated moon
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 30 November 2007 at 12:36am | IP Logged
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The big generic ships with lots of phasers... the S8 Lost Pirate and the S8
Ship of the Ancients.
R/E 3 Phaser Fighters and E4 Heavy Phaser Refits are also useful.
Use Tranoans as the minor empire. I like putting an S6 Tranoan and a
comet of lore in my reserve. When you get a big scorpy ship to play, pull
out the Tranoan and the comet, and if you can, slap a phaser refit on
it... :D
[maniaical laugh] 4 time phasers with a 3x magnifier... [/maniaical laugh]
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RobPro
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| Posted: 30 November 2007 at 7:08am | IP Logged
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There's that R/E4 foreign technology one. It -might- be worth running a bunch of guys to let you use foreign tech for that card. And I think it would work with phaser mags.
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Aramax
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| Posted: 30 November 2007 at 12:04pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
| There's that R/E4 foreign technology one. It -might- be worth running a bunch of guys to let you use foreign tech for that card. And I think it would work with phaser mags. |
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thats the way we play it
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 30 November 2007 at 2:01pm | IP Logged
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I realize I should clarify what I said earlier, the R/E3 Phaser Fighters are
really only useful on the S7 Scorpead Battlecarrier. But, you can put a
couple of the fighters on one of them and have 7 phasers with a 3x
magnifier.
I would also say that the E6 and E3 Reserve Powers are good for Scorpies
too since they tend to be somewhat power hungry.
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Aramax
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| Posted: 01 December 2007 at 6:18am | IP Logged
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MogwaiSC wrote:
I realize I should clarify what I said earlier, the R/E3 Phaser Fighters are
really only useful on the S7 Scorpead Battlecarrier. But, you can put a
couple of the fighters on one of them and have 7 phasers with a 3x
magnifier.
I would also say that the E6 and E3 Reserve Powers are good for Scorpies
too since they tend to be somewhat power hungry. |
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I dont think you can phaser multiply the fighters,peanut gallery chime in please!
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bignea
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| Posted: 01 December 2007 at 8:18am | IP Logged
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I would say ships only.
The fighters phasers are not combined with the ships phasers, it would be like using them like refits.
Edited by bignea on 01 December 2007 at 8:34am
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bignea
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| Posted: 01 December 2007 at 8:38am | IP Logged
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Use a E9 future ship with the R/E4 multi-purpose phasers, a lot of fire power back at ya!
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Matchbox
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| Posted: 01 December 2007 at 3:50pm | IP Logged
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or us that on a tranoan, i guess its not as powerful but you can hit every ship or base in the fleet.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 02 December 2007 at 5:28am | IP Logged
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Yes, Extreme Phaser Refits, Future Ships, and Tronoan Command Cruisers are very good adds to a Scorp deck
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 02 December 2007 at 11:20pm | IP Logged
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No.
bignea wrote:
The fighters phasers are not combined with the ships
phasers, it would be like using them like refits. |
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It's an equipment card, and is played to the ship and adds its phasers
to the ship just like any other phaser refit equipment card does. It
become part of the ship stack and gets added in to the phasers on the
ship and all are magnified.
Edited by MogwaiSC on 02 December 2007 at 11:29pm
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 02 December 2007 at 11:29pm | IP Logged
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Phaser Refits "add X Phaser Points" (to the ship they're played on)
Shuttles/Fighters may "Fire it's Phasers (one time only)"
Note the difference, Phaser refits affect the ship they're played on; Fighters may fire it's Phasers, as it's card action. It does not state, nor even imply, that it's Phasers are added to the ship that it's played on (unlike a refit card, which specifically states such).
The Fighter/Shuttle fires it's phasers; the ship it's played on does not do so; thus the ships Phaser magnifiers cannot affect the shuttle's phasers.
Edited by ericbsmith on 02 December 2007 at 11:32pm
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 03 December 2007 at 6:49am | IP Logged
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Yeah, what Eric said. :)
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"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 03 December 2007 at 11:07am | IP Logged
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Yes, but the Battlecarrier says that it rearms the fighter each turn, and the
fighter is played to the carrier. Even though the figher may say "its" on it,
it does not say that it is treated as if it weren't played to the carrier or that
it is a separate unit from the carrier (and there are fighters that do say
that), nor does it say that in the rulebook as far as I know.
If what you are both claiming is the case, then the fighter would
specifically have to say that it can be played independently and destroyed
independently from the unit it is played to. Further, fighters with shields
would NOT add their shields to the unit they're played to. However, that is
NOT how those fighters are played now, are they?
I must respectfully disagree with both of you. The fighter is a piece of
equipment, and is played *to the carrier*. It is NOT a *separate* unit from
the carrier; if it were, that ruling must apply to ALL fighters, even those
race specific ones with the extra shields as well as weapons. And if that's
the case, then those fighters that have Special Weapons Mounts such as
the R/E6 Bolaar fighter, would have to have a separate equipment card
played to the fighter, NOT to the unit the fighter is played to, to have
those SWM's counted as the kind of weapon a refit changes them to.
Think about it... what you're saying here goes against the logic of how ALL
fighters work in the game. You can't have it both ways. If the phaser
fighter doesn't combine it's weapons with the Battlecarrier, then NO
FIGHTER COMBINES WITH ANY SHIP, and its weapons and shields DO NOT
ADD TO THAT SHIP.
Edited by MogwaiSC on 03 December 2007 at 11:15am
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Gekonauak
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You are right. No fighter combines with any ship.
Phasers on Fighters are generally a one shot weapon. Carriers rearm the phasers, so you can use them each turn. They are fired independantly of the ship.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 03 December 2007 at 11:24pm | IP Logged
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Okay, then I'm wrong on the phaser magnifier, but I'm right on the fact
that shields on a fighter don't protect the ship they're played to then. I'm
also right that weapons refits played to ships with special weapons
mounts do not modify the special weapons on the fighters played to those
ships.
However, I think that is illogical, because it means basically then that
fighters are separate units, but yet they're equipment cards, and some
fighters, such as the Dark Hand Patrol Fighter, say they can be played
independently and protect the sector headquarters.
So how is this to be resolved then? This adds a lot of extra and in my
opinion unnecessary, complications to the game.
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 03 December 2007 at 11:54pm | IP Logged
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There's nothing much to resolve. When a fighter is played on a ship, base, or other location it is a piece of equipment and can only be affected by things that affect equipment cards.
When a fighter is played independently it is a "standard target," effectively making it another unit in many ways. It still doesn't take a command slot, but can be targeted by weapons fire (see the Weapons Fire rules). Note that a fighter can only be played independently (or moved from a ship to be in play independently) in a few rare cases (such as the Dark Hand Patrol Fighter, or if a C4 Fighter Pilot or C6 Ace Fighter Pilot is played to it).
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 04 December 2007 at 12:45am | IP Logged
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Sorry Eric, but I think there is a big issue to resolve. That issue is how you
deal with the fact that, according to Geko's ruling here, the shields on a
fighter don't combine with the ship it's played to. If that's the case, then
why the hell were fighters ever designed with shields in the first place?
The bigger issue is that this blurs the lines between what is and is not a
unit. On the one hand, they don't combine with the ship they're played to,
but on the other, they're not units. It doesn't match up with the rules for
either units or equipment. That's the problem; barring the special cases
because of specific card abilities, fighters are separate but they're not a
unit. I simply don't see the logic in that. Further, it makes fighters
basically useless, even on a carrier if they don't gain the abilities of
weapon refit cards played to the ship they're on, or have their shields add
to the ship they're on. It's simply illogical.
If they're going to be in between the two types, they should be their own
card type.
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 04 December 2007 at 1:26am | IP Logged
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MogwaiSC wrote:
Sorry Eric, but I think there is a big issue to resolve. That issue is how you
deal with the fact that, according to Geko's ruling here, the shields on a
fighter don't combine with the ship it's played to. If that's the case, then
why the hell were fighters ever designed with shields in the first place? |
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When a fighter is played independently it can be targeted with weapons fire. When that is done, their shields protect from that damage. See the link to the Weapons Fire rules I provided earlier.
MogwaiSC wrote:
The bigger issue is that this blurs the lines between what is and is not a
unit. On the one hand, they don't combine with the ship they're played to,
but on the other, they're not units. |
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Right. Equipment cards don't combine with the card they're played to. "Combining" cards has a specific meaning in the rules - the combined cards are treated as one card for all purposes; their engagement cost, weapons, shields, and even their card strengths are all combined to form one whole. Further, once cards have been combined they may not be targeted by effects independently; you cannot play a Hazard to part of a combined Krebiz ship, you play it to the whole combined ship or not at all. Equipment cards can be targeted independently with card plays, destroyed by crew assaults, etc.
MogwaiSC wrote:
It doesn't match up with the rules for
either units or equipment. |
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Fighters are always equipment. They must be played to a ship or base, and can only become independent through the use of a card rule (such as those on the C4/C6 Fighter Pilots or on the Patrol Fighter). Even when independent they're still equipment, it's just that they can be targeted with weapons fire because they're now a "standard target."
MogwaiSC wrote:
That's the problem; barring the special cases
because of specific card abilities, fighters are separate but they're not a
unit. |
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Right. Just like a Phaser Refit is seperate but it's not a unit either. And there is no special circumstance that makes a fighter a unit; they become a "standard target" when free flying, but they're never a unit.
MogwaiSC wrote:
I simply don't see the logic in that. Further, it makes fighters
basically useless, even on a carrier if they don't gain the abilities of
weapon refit cards played to the ship they're on, or have their shields add
to the ship they're on. It's simply illogical. |
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Fighters get to use their phasers every turn when played on a carrier. They can use their heavy weapons if armed. They can be used to transport crew from location to location or on a there-and-back mission (bypassing shields). Best of all they can do that in reaction mode. They're far from useless.
Now, the regular fighters and shuttles *WERE* made pretty useless by the empire fighters. The empire fighters are generally far better than other fighters; they have shields, their phasers don't need to be rearmed, and they return to the hand when discarded (including when you voluntarily discard them at the end of a turn), allowing you to play them in reaction again later. The only edge that shuttles have is that they can generally carry more crew at once and they can be played to your minor empire units and bases. But note that while the empire fighters can only be played to an empire unit, they can then be moved to another location.
MogwaiSC wrote:
If they're going to be in between the two types, they should be their own
card type. |
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They're equipment. They're always equipment. They are also a location and a standard target (when free flying)- so they can be the focus of a there-and-back mission and be targeted with weapons fire (when free flying). But they're never a unit - Units are Bases, Ships, or Dragons only - that's made clear in the rules.
I don't see how this causes problems.
Edited by ericbsmith on 04 December 2007 at 1:31am
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Eric B. Smith
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 04 December 2007 at 2:05am | IP Logged
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Eric,
I don't mean to be an ass, but your splitting of semantic hairs here is
preventing you from seeing the larger issue I'm referring to, and frankly
I've had my fill of trying to explain it. I'm done with this issue. Whatever,
you win. Geez.
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ericbsmith
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| Posted: 04 December 2007 at 2:21am | IP Logged
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As far as I can tell, you've yet to even describe what the "larger issue" (or "problem") is here. It's not that I disagree with the "problem" you claim exists, it's that I can't discern what that "problem" is because you're being unclear as to what it is.
The only thing I can tell is that you seem to think there's a problem with a fighter not being considered a Unit - but I don't see how that's a problem at all. Several of the issues you do state clearly (such as why do fighters have shields) I've very clearly explained (they have shields to protect them from weapons fire while they're played independently). I just don't see the "larger issue" here.
Edited by ericbsmith on 04 December 2007 at 2:25am
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Eric B. Smith
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 04 December 2007 at 6:59am | IP Logged
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Let me chime in here for a sec.
One) Fighters are equipment. No fighter or shuttle is ever considered a "Unit".
Two) Only some fighters have shields (Predominately, the racial fighters have a point or two).
Three) No fighter, played to ANY Scorp ship, be it the BB or the Carrier, may have it's Phasers Magnified. EVER! They are not refits, they are not part of the ship. Add Phaser refits if you want more guns. Those become part of the ship, and thus can be Magnified.
Equipment cards cannot.
Period, end of discussion.
And no, this isn't "My interpretation", these are the rules.
I wish most of you would go back and really READ the Universe 2.0 Rulebook, and read it objectively. Don't read what you want it to say, read what is WRITTEN...
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a water pump to install on my new car, and a Druid to get to lvl 40 before I transfer him off of this annoying PvP server.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 04 December 2007 at 8:28am | IP Logged
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No need to be condescending.
The fighters are "mini-ships" that need to come back to the unit to refuel.
They don't add their weapons or shields as they are independant flyers, and not part of the weapon/shield array of the main unit (just like in real life).
Take a look at any sci-fi show or movie, the fighters don't add their weapons or shields to the main unit.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:55am | IP Logged
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Gekonauak wrote:
No need to be condescending.
The fighters are "mini-ships" that need to come back to the unit to refuel.
They don't add their weapons or shields as they are independant flyers, and not part of the weapon/shield array of the main unit (just like in real life).
Take a look at any sci-fi show or movie, the fighters don't add their weapons or shields to the main unit.
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I wasn't being condescending. I'm just tired of the myriad of pointless arguments because some people only want to apply the flawed rules they learned back in the day to the real game. Some people didn't learn GE by the book, and thus bring that flawed knowledge here and try to spout it a rules gospel.
And if that makes me a condescender, so be it.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Galactic Empires : Deck Construction and Strategy
Topic: Essential cards for Scorpead
