Posted: 05 December 2007 at 9:16am | IP Logged

Greetings and happy holidays to all!

I've been busy working on my master's degree but found enough time to look at a program people use to play MTG on-line. It is called OCTGN and it allows people to play card games on-line. The program itself is a bit generic in that it supplies no card images and enforces no rules. The community builds the card sets and I'm certain this is how the company who builds the program dodges trouble from Hasbro.

The system seems to me like it would handle GE with little or no problem - once the card scans were done and the data entered into the system. The program is rule nuetral in that it requires the players to manage the turn sequence and the interaction of the cards. The program has mechanisms for adding/removing counters looking through your deck, graveyard, and the other player's as well plus lots of other convuluted card interaction. It even manages sealed deck and booster drafts between players. It really seems well suited to handling GE.

The program allows people to play on public or private servers and appears to handle 4 players (it advertise that people can play 2-Headed Giant). I haven't really studied how difficult it is to make the 'card sets' but it can't be too hard. It is currently a freeware program and I am not affiliated with it in any way.

With the widespread geography of the players it seems ideal...

Anyone interested in looking at how difficult it would be to create the files needed to play GE on it?

J--

Posted: 05 December 2007 at 11:28pm | IP Logged

The game itself is an indie thing and the developers are not really responsive to requests but they are active. I've puzzled out the basics of how to get the GE cards into the game - I'm including a link to a screen shot showing some JXar cards in the game.

I still have a lot to learn but I'm a database developer by trade and this kind of thing fits my skill set reasonably well. Once I master the details of how to get the info into the system and organized we can begin to decide how to best represent the GE cards in an MTG format.

The latest file I know of is at:

http://mtgcast.com/octgn.php

Here is the link to a screenshot with GE cards in the game - its a bit big so open at your own risk.

http://members.cox.net/james4177/images/GE_ONLINE_TEST.jpg

I think this will really work but I'll need some help - especially getting the best scans available. Lobo already volunteered. If anyone else is interested let me know. I think this has potential.

If anyone is rich and interested I think the developers are looking for games to package with the V2 release of OCTGN. Buy the rights to GE and you could release it with V2? :)

Just one more random thought... if this works it would be REALLY easy to make NEW digital only GE cards...

J--

Posted: 06 December 2007 at 4:11am | IP Logged

I would like to down load the install at the site but before I overload my computer do you have any particulars on Cyber space, capacity, Giga bites ect...

Posted: 06 December 2007 at 7:28am | IP Logged

I looked all over the official forums - they are pretty small - and found nothing about hardware requirements. However, I don't think they are very heavy. There isn't much animation. It is mostly a networked front end for an MS Jet database. I've seen it running on a 4 year old machine so most people should be able to run it.

In order to play you need a network connection. I don't know if it runs over a modem. Everyone I know has Hi-Speed so I don't have a way of testing but I think it will work on a modem.

I'll puzzle out the optimum image size for the cards tonight and post the details. We really need 5 things to make this work.

1. Card images of all cards scanned in at the resolution I'll post once I find it. The images on Eric's website are pretty close but just a bit small.
2. A delimited text file of all the card data.
3. A concensus on how we want to handle card wordings. We can type in the same old stuff we argue about now or we can 'correct' them and have a unified rule set.
4. If I can't find text symbols to represent all of the graphics on the cards (shield symbols, heavy weapon symbols, etc.) then we'll need to reach a concensus on how to represent them.
5. Some time to get the data organized and imported.

Depending on how long it takes to make the scans and get the delimited text files I think this project can be done over my Christmas Holiday. I'm predicting On-Line GE by New Years! :)

I almost forgot, here is the main developer's website.

http://octgn.org/legacy/index.php?option=com_frontpage&I temid=1

J--

Posted: 06 December 2007 at 8:27am | IP Logged

I understand about the scanned images. The game itself doesn't have any of the images in it. The individual players have the images and descriptive text stored on their own computers and the software just displays the images to the other player - much like Eric's website does.

Before the images could be included with the game whoever owns the rights must approve - thus my earlier comment.

Is there a little risk...? Possibly. Perhaps Lobo would like to comment? He has a talent for 'measuring' his words carefully. :)

I don't feel that anyone is going to sue me for playing a defunct card game on-line. Maybe I'm wrong. If I am I expect I'll get a cease and desist letter which I'll comply with and then move on to some other CCG. For now I still love GE enough to take the risk. :)

J--

Posted: 06 December 2007 at 8:29am | IP Logged

-Before using, as Robpro hinted at, you probably should look at the copyright protection, IP issues, etc in place to shield you from potential liability. I agree no one will likely care, but it is always beneficial to be able to avoid a cease and desist from some wacko in toronto with no job, a baseball bat, and a car that gets good gas mileage.

As patent/trademark/copyright isn't my area, i'll have to send out some general feelers about how to get around it or if it will even be a problem. These issues will not prevent you from developing this and just hosting for your own, private, and singular use. However, before making it a playable program versus just a big file on your computer, it'd be best to clarify what we can and cannot do with such an ambitious project.

Or, in the alternative, you can just grip it and rip it. The risk is there but if you're willing to take it, so be it. It doesn't worry me as much since Eric has the images on his website and no one seems to complain.

I'll get back to ya.....Lobo

Posted: 06 December 2007 at 9:43am | IP Logged

...and to Lobo's point, no one has complained about Eric's site and this is much less public than that. I have no intention of releasing this as part of a program. It is simply a set of image and text files that reside on the computers of whoever is playing at the time.

The honest truth is that many people are using it (OCTGN) to play MTG and WOW online. If Hasbro and Blizzard aren't shutting down those activites I suspect that the owner of the defunct GE game wont take any action. If they do then I will simply comply with their request. I think they'd have a hard time making a case that I'm costing them any income.

Still, I respect and look forward to Lobo's advice. He and his concrete floors are very wise. :)

J--

Posted: 06 December 2007 at 8:26pm | IP Logged

Those of you who are interested in helping with card scans the needed format is:

312 Pixels x 445 Pixels at a consistent but high DPI.

Do you think we need to move this to another site - a blog perhaps? Or is it better to keep it here?

J--

Posted: 19 December 2007 at 5:10pm | IP Logged

If anyone is still interested in this topic I am still working on it.

I'm tyring to enter enough cards and scans to represent 2 decks so I can play test the interface with GE. The current version of the game has a decidely 'Magic' feel to its structure and I'm trying to discover (from the dev) if the newer version will allow for a change away from the MTG style fields in the database.

I hope to get a couple of decks up and running by Christmas.

Happy almost end of the year spending spree time! :)

J--

Posted: 20 December 2007 at 1:28pm | IP Logged

Once I get the GE card format mapped onto the Magic card structure we're stuck with I'll need some substantial data entry help.

If I could get a delimited file of all the card text/rules/types/output/costs/etc... I could write some code that could automate a lot of the process. I know it is available somewhere.

The card scans are the next thing to get. We can make do with the ones from the card museum but honestly some of them could be better. Depends on how much work we want to do.

My first goal is to get two decks running and play some test games. You could download and install the software in preparation for that.

J--