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super jew
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 11:10am | IP Logged Quote super jew

A luck demon gets played against a accelration time line but a reaseach delevepor who reacts to the luck demon does the delevpor effect take effect to the luck demon.It was played in reaction to the time line. The real question is a monster effect against the fleet on the delevpor . P>S> sorry for miss spellining

 
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super jew
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 11:12am | IP Logged Quote super jew
sorry 4 mispells.
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super jew
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 12:04pm | IP Logged Quote super jew
does the developer 2 effect take effect over luck demon b/c the accerrated time line was played from hand is the hand considered to be your fleet.
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Biegel
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 6:10pm | IP Logged Quote Biegel
Bump
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werewolflht65
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 10:21pm | IP Logged Quote werewolflht65
Let me clarify for those of you in the cheap seats.

This happened this past weekend.

Player A Played an Acc Timeline. Player B reacted with a Luck Demon.

Player A had a Research Developer in Play, and said as a reaction, his Research Developer could negate one monster affect against the fleet each turn.

Now the question at the heart of this is: While the Luck Demon isn't in play against Player A, its effect is. So, more simply, is the Luck Demon creating an affect against player A's fleet?



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Biegel
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 6:25am | IP Logged Quote Biegel
Question Mark????? Bump Ole Timers IS any one out there?
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RobPro
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 7:52am | IP Logged Quote RobPro
The luck demon isn't played against a fleet, so I don't see why the research developer would be able to affect it.

Also, the wording of the luck demon implies it is more of a 'state-based' effect, meaning it's not an active thing that can be negated.


Edited by RobPro on 11 December 2007 at 7:53am
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 8:24am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
I believe we reprinted the Research Developer in Universe. Can I get his new wording?
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werewolflht65
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 8:56am | IP Logged Quote werewolflht65
Gekonauak wrote:
I believe we reprinted the Research Developer in Universe. Can I get his new wording?


C-7 Research Developer
When in play on a base, provides the following:
-Every 7 points of research allocated to it allows the owning player to draw 1 card when the last point is allocated.
-Points may not be applied outside of the Allocation Phase.
-As a reaction, negates one monster effect against the fleet each turn.

This is the Universe Edition, taken straight from a card in front of me.


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Gekonauak
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
okay, now, before I give you my opinion... How did you guys resolve it?

What did you guys decide?
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MogwaiSC
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 11:23am | IP Logged Quote MogwaiSC
Seems pretty clear to me... The Luck Demon has its effect against a fleet,
even if the Demon is part of a different fleet. That means that the
Research Developer can negate the effect of the Luck Demon when it is
used against the Developer's fleet.
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RobPro
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 9:05pm | IP Logged Quote RobPro
Right, but the Luck Demon is still in play, and would affect the fleet again. How would a Research Developer affect a Space Penguin? It's the same kind of thing.
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Biegel
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Posted: 12 December 2007 at 6:02am | IP Logged Quote Biegel
Here is something to chew on: Galactic Fire #3 Page 4 Bottom of page.         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;          Misconception: Time skipping a location where a crew is being played will cause the crew to suck vacume and die in space.                                                                                                                 Fact: Even played in reaction a card such as a time skip,when taking a card out of play will take any card in play on the card out of play as well. When a card goes out of play the stack goes. Once a card has been played it is in play even if it has not yet resolved an action.
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werewolflht65
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Posted: 12 December 2007 at 6:25am | IP Logged Quote werewolflht65
We were forced, for the sake of extending the argument to an hours time, to resolve it in favor of the Research Developer.

So, go ahead and weigh in Geko.


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Biegel
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Posted: 12 December 2007 at 4:36pm | IP Logged Quote Biegel
Wolfie calling Gego. Bump
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Matchbox
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Posted: 12 December 2007 at 10:34pm | IP Logged Quote Matchbox

ive always played it that the luck demon is not against a fleet, as was stated, so the C7 wouldnt take effect, BUT if there was a luck card, say, uhhh vaccuum effect against it, that would work because it is a reaction and would take effect before the luck demon would.
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RobPro
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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 12:35am | IP Logged Quote RobPro
After Geko answers this question, I have a similar one.

Would a B10 Science Academy stop the effects of a Space Penguin on the player who has it in play? Allowing that player and the one in regular turn order to take infinity turns in a row?

I'll explain that idea tomorrow... me head tired write paper night all sleep.
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MogwaiSC
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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 1:31am | IP Logged Quote MogwaiSC
"Fact: Even played in reaction a card such as a time skip,when taking a
card out of play will take any card in play on the card out of play as well.
When a card goes out of play the stack goes. Once a card has been
played it is in play even if it has not yet resolved an action."

See, this is what I was talking about in the other thread. This is
ridiculous, if the card says "discard after use", it doesn't stick around,
it's action have been done and negated, therefore it should be discarded
immediately. I know there's a bunch of crap about this in GF2 and GF3,
but nothing in GF3 says a card that is "discarded after use" sticks
around. What it does say in GF2 is that such cards remain in play until
the end of the player turn and resolve their action at the end of the
player turn, unless their action was negated when they were played.
That means that they are discarded after you play a time skip or
something against them. This whole issue needs to be redone, it's an
inherently and fundamentally flawed rule structure as it currently stands.
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 8:50am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
sorry guys, I was off yesterday.

The C7 would suspend the Luck Demon. It would not discard it, but it would prevent it from effecting cards in the player's fleet.

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Gekonauak
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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 8:57am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
MogwaiSC wrote:


See, this is what I was talking about in the other thread. This is ridiculous, if the card says "discard after use", it doesn't stick around, it's action have been done and negated, therefore it should be discarded
immediately. I know there's a bunch of crap about this in GF2 and GF3, but nothing in GF3 says a card that is "discarded after use" sticks around. What it does say in GF2 is that such cards remain in play until
the end of the player turn and resolve their action at the end of the player turn, unless their action was negated when they were played. That means that they are discarded after you play a time skip or
something against them. This whole issue needs to be redone, it's an inherently and fundamentally flawed rule structure as it currently stands.


This is what I meant when I said that "Discard after use" was used way too often. It is not discarded after use, but discarded after its effect is done, this could be several rounds. Yes, cards with "discard after use" do stay in play until they have finished resolving and are then discarded.
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 8:58am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
Maybe *THAT* should be in the misconception thread. And, it definately should be made more clear in the rulebook.
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 1:53pm | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
The Space Penguin is another matter entirely.

I would say that the B10 and C7 could not stop a penguin.

Edited by Gekonauak on 14 December 2007 at 3:40pm
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Eaglepreacher
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 3:09pm | IP Logged Quote Eaglepreacher
I would say the Researcher negates the luck demons effect.  The researcher doesn't negate a monster, just the effect.  The LD doesn't need to be against the fleet, but the effect is against the fleet. 
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MogwaiSC
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 5:46pm | IP Logged Quote MogwaiSC
Eaglepreacher wrote:
I would say the Researcher negates the luck
demons effect.  The researcher doesn't negate a monster, just the effect. 
The LD doesn't need to be against the fleet, but the effect is against the
fleet. 

I support this view entirely.
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Eaglepreacher
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 10:53pm | IP Logged Quote Eaglepreacher
as for the space Penguin, after looking at the cards I would have to say there is a fine line there.  Neither the B10 nor the C7 affect the peguin.  While they do affect the fleet, the effect is against the fleet.  Think of the war in Iraq, while it does affect you, it isnt against you, but if you were there in Iraq it would be both.
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RobPro
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Posted: 15 December 2007 at 4:42pm | IP Logged Quote RobPro
But the LD doesn't say "As a reaction, take control of any luck card just played." It says it gets them, it's a static ability. I don't think you could negate that, and if you could the LD would just try to take control of it again.

This is why the B10 could stop the LD, the LD affects the fleet and the B10 will have none of that. It's not a 'single' effect, it's constant.

The Penguin also affects the fleet, in the same way the LD does. It has a static, game-state ability. If I have a B10 out, the next person plays a penguin and then it comes to my turn, the turn would progress back to that person and create an infinite loop.

I'm not saying I'm right (and I'm not saying I want to start a fight), but I'd like it if you could put in rules quotes that answer these points. From looking at the cards, I don't see how I'm wrong.


Edited by RobPro on 15 December 2007 at 4:43pm
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werewolflht65
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Posted: 15 December 2007 at 11:38pm | IP Logged Quote werewolflht65
C-7 Research Developer:

When in play on a base, provides the following: -Every 7 points of research allocated to it allows the owning player to draw 1 card when the last point is allocated. -Points may not be applied outside of the Allocation Phase. -As a reaction, negates one monster effect against the fleet each turn.

R/L-9 Luck Demon:

-All luck cards played by opponents on their own fleets may instead be immediately played by the player possessing the most recently played luck demon in play. -All luck cards played by opponents against the fleet are ignored (discarded) unless the luck demon player wants it played there. -Destroyed by research equal to its strength.

Verc is right. While the Luck Demon IS a static effect, in reality, if he plays a luck card, the Luck Demon would then EFFECT his fleet, and the Research Developer would negate that effect.


Edited by werewolflht65 on 15 December 2007 at 11:44pm

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RobPro
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Posted: 15 December 2007 at 11:41pm | IP Logged Quote RobPro
Posting card text != explaining anything.
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RobPro
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Posted: 17 December 2007 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote RobPro
My point is the Luck Demon is effecting your fleet -regardless- of any luck cards being played. It does not have something that activates or triggers, it is constant. The LD's wording 'All luck cards' implies this.

If it had said 'may take 1 luck card,' then I would say the Developer would stop it.
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werewolflht65
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Posted: 17 December 2007 at 10:48am | IP Logged Quote werewolflht65
RobPro wrote:
My point is the Luck Demon is effecting your fleet -regardless- of any luck cards being played. It does not have something that activates or triggers, it is constant. The LD's wording 'All luck cards' implies this.

If it had said 'may take 1 luck card,' then I would say the Developer would stop it.


No, sorry. Doesn't work. Basically, the RD allows, as a reaction, the controlling player to ignore the effects of a Luck Demon for a complete turn.


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