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Peterf
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Joined: 01 January 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 17 January 2008 at 3:28pm | IP Logged
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Hello all, I've only recently stumbled onto this game and I'd like a few words of advice in regards to collecting and deck construction.
To provide a context first, I'm creating a few decks that I can play with a friend and I want to initially create a few simple decks that can show off the game, provide a few different themes and play styles and hopefully not overwhelm him with too many rules or added complexities.
I've splashed out on a few boxes (piracy, POM, TimeGate and Universe) and have starter decks for the POT, Tufor, Corporates and Comedy Club. I've also just bought a custom terrain set from Wolfie (and it looks like every time I bid on any other of his offerings I get sniped).
Firstly, what is a good deck size for casual play? I was surprised to read people saying that 100-150 card decks are better. I was hoping more for smaller (52-60), more themed decks.
Secondly, what proportions are best for basic decks? 25% terrain, 25% ships and 50% the rest?
Thirdly, are there any essential card groups to include in each deck or can the game get by with me taking a chance and ignoring some card types?
(just remember- I'm not interested in building too many cheesy decks).
Fourthly, do the Time Gates and POM cards add much to the mix for beginners, or is it better to keep them aside for the time being? (I suspect the latter).
As regards collecting, what is the better box to focus on if I wish to get my hands on as diverse a set of empires as possible? Universe?
Also, if any of you regulars want to help a newbie by making any sale offers, feel free.
Any advice would be appreciated. Part two of this series will probably be the part which has a whole slew of dumb-ass questions which arise from our first attempts at the game. Does anyone know of any good sites or resources to check out so my questions aren't too painfully obvious?
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Lobo
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| Posted: 17 January 2008 at 3:35pm | IP Logged
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-Howdy howdy. Galaktische created a few decks that introduced me to the game, and i do not believe any of them were above 80 cards. I think 50-60 is a good target to not overwhelm the prospective players. What follows is one lonely mans opinion on some of the questions you raise above.
As for proportions, for sample, intro games it is not as important. I'd go with something like 12 ships, 12 terrain, and 5 each of 6 other categories of cards (O/H/M/E/C/L).
Individual card choices don't really matter as you are trying to learn mechanics first, so just meet the deck stocking rules and have at it.
You can certainly use some cards from Time and POM but i woudl not include any Knights or Psys out of the gate, keep the mechanics simple. Really, those starter decks may be all you need to get started and save you some effort, tweak them as you like i suppose.
Good luck with it and welcome to the forums.....Lobo
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Galaktische
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| Posted: 17 January 2008 at 4:10pm | IP Logged
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I agree completely with what Lobo said. You don't need giant decks to have fun - at least not in duels which is what Lobo and I play 99% of the time.
Just play the starter decks for the first game and then tweak the decks between games.
Always include a mid-strength ship and terrain in your reserve fleet in case you get a really miserable draw.
Don't play the Comedy Club deck the first time out... it is pretty weird compared to normal decks. There is this penguin that causes problems. :)
Keep the game simple at first and then our answers to your more complicated questions will make more sense.
J--
Edited by Galaktische on 17 January 2008 at 4:11pm
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RobPro
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| Posted: 17 January 2008 at 4:43pm | IP Logged
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I would almost recommend 100-card decks, but that's just me. I made a few starter decks with 20 ships, 20 terrains, and 10 cards of 6 types (variety of cards, not just the power cards).
The minimum decksize is 40 cards, but what sets GE apart from other CCGs is that you often have an advantage for playing with more cards than the minimum. I made my decks to reflect that.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 17 January 2008 at 10:43pm | IP Logged
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Peterf wrote:
Firstly, what is a good deck size for casual play? I was
surprised to read people saying that 100-150 card decks are better. I
was hoping more for smaller (52-60), more themed decks. Secondly,
what proportions are best for basic decks? 25% terrain, 25% ships and
50% the rest?Thirdly, are there any essential card groups to include in
each deck or can the game get by with me taking a chance and ignoring
some card types?(just remember- I'm not interested in building too
many cheesy decks). |
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This is really a matter of preference and the individual dynamics of how
your group ends up playing. The group I play in went through a long
spell of very large builds; 250 - 300 - 350 cards. We even had one
player who regularly built to 400 - 500. Of course, there are some
significant drawbacks to building to that size, although you can pull off
some incredible stuff when it comes together.
We all tend to have decks that are in the 175 - 250 range. The size of
deck really changes the percentages that you need to have. Smaller
decks are far less likely to end up with card types clumped after they've
been shuffled, so you can run smaller percentages in a smaller deck,
although again, it really depends on what you're trying to do.
In general, larger builds allow you to put more cards in that have a
similar function, across all card types. I try and never build to more
than 250 at the absolute largest. I usually shoot for 200 and that works
pretty well; I typically try to run at least 30% ships and 25% terrain to
fight the tendency of card types to get clumped together at a build size
of 250 (that means a good 60 -65 ships at that size, which by itself can
be a challenge to put together a fleet thats legal that has that many
ships).
One of my best decks is a Zedan retribution/denial deck that is 225
cards. It is 27% ships, 22% terrain, 15 % crew, and 20% luck. With
respect to what I said in the last paragraph, the larger size of the deck
allows me to put 3 prophets, 3 ancient spacefarers, 3 mystic wanderers,
Time Knights, an M10 time keeper, M4 spacetaceans, etc. all in the
deck.
Although, I recently built a 125 card Garshain Indirigan deck that is 29%
ships and 20% terrain which is pretty ferocious. Go figure. The
difference is that that one is more tightly built; the card combinations
are simple, two cards at the most, and it is designed first and foremost
to get ships out, rather than pull off card combinations and get a
particular strategy into play.
It's less the size than what you do with it... ;-) What you take in your
reserve can also significantly how you build a deck too, but that's a
whole other topic.
Peterf wrote:
Fourthly, do the Time Gates and POM cards add much to
the mix for beginners, or is it better to keep them aside for the time
being? (I suspect the latter).As regards collecting, what is the better box
to focus on if I wish to get my hands on as diverse a set of empires as
possible? Universe? |
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Universe is your best bet to get the broadest range of cards. Time Gates
is still very available and has a lot of useful cards in it. For the money,
Primary will get you the greatest amount of cards for the least
investment, and there are also a lot of good cards in it as well, although
it is more chaff than wheat compared to Time Gates or even Universe.
There are some great cards in POM, but it tends to be more specialized
in terms of the kinds of strategies you can build with cards from it. Wait
a while on it until you're more familiar with the game and have played
some.
If you find an opportunity to buy anything from Advanced Tech, Galactic
Invaders, or New Empires, if you can afford it, get it. There are some
fantastic cards in those sets and they are very hard to come by.
Sorry for the long winded response, hope it's helpful and not too
overwhelming. Probably the single best thing to do is build a deck, post
it in a new thread here, and ask for input on it. Listen to what you get
back, try things out that appeal to you, and see what does and doesn't
work.
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Peterf
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Joined: 01 January 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 2:31am | IP Logged
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Quote:
| We all tend to have decks that are in the 175 - 250 range. |
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Wow. I'll need to buy more cards.
I've tried to put together some small decks but it gets hard to achieve any sort of elegance- there's too much 'gee whiz' stuff that I want to throw in. I guess the standard starter decks came with 100 cards and that is what I should stick to.
Thanks for taking the time to write up your advice everybody. I appreciate everyone's input.
After actually playing a few games, I'll be back with more questions.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 8:39am | IP Logged
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small decks are good to get an understanding of the game.
But, to get the full flavor, I would fully agree with RobPro:
I would almost recommend 100-card decks, but that's just me. I made a few starter decks with 20 ships, 20 terrains, and 10 cards of 6 types (variety of cards, not just the power cards).
The minimum decksize is 40 cards, but what sets GE apart from other CCGs is that you often have an advantage for playing with more cards than the minimum. I made my decks to reflect that.
For card base, I would stick with Universe.
Universe is your best bet to get the broadest range of cards. Time Gates
is still very available and has a lot of useful cards in it. For the money,
Primary will get you the greatest amount of cards for the least
investment, and there are also a lot of good cards in it as well, although
it is more chaff than wheat compared to Time Gates or even Universe.
There are some great cards in POM, but it tends to be more specialized
in terms of the kinds of strategies you can build with cards from it. Wait
a while on it until you're more familiar with the game and have played
some.
If you find an opportunity to buy anything from Advanced Tech, Galactic
Invaders, or New Empires, if you can afford it, get it. There are some
fantastic cards in those sets and they are very hard to come by.
I concur, except when it comes to New Empires, a lot of those cards were reprinted in Universe. So, I would skip it.
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werewolflht65
Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 780
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 2:19pm | IP Logged
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Everyone has offered pretty much the best advice you can get for GE, both with regards to deck construction and what set offers the best diversity.
Universe is the "Grab Bag" release. In the 2.0 (Newest) printing it even had cards from Time gates and PotM.
Times Gates should be your secondary focus, because while Uni-2.0 had some good cards from TG, it didn't have all of them.
Check with Cav, on eBay. He sells Booster Boxes for $9.99 apiece and still has Universe, PotM, TG, Piracy and Primary. Avoid Primary, as almost all of those cards were reprinted in Universe.
PotM only has a few useful cards for non Psy decks (Scepter of Time being the most useful) and Piracy is just a lot of filler fluff. Most of us here regard Piracy as the "Fallen Empires" release of GE. Too much of nothin special.
If you do plan to get a case from Cav, split it 6 boxes of Uni and 2 of TG.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
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While there is a fair amount of useless stuff in Piracy, there are also
some great cards as well. S7 Trade Ships, S6 Police Cruisers, the big
Bolaar S8's, and S7's for example. None of those were reprinted in
Universe. I think its worth it just to get those ships.
Cav is the best place to get boxes though. I'm not sure about shipping
to Oz, but here in the states if you buy in lots of 8 boxes, it works out
to be about $11 US per box.
There are also some things in New Empires that are great cards that
weren't reprinted in Universe; A6 Promotions, B7 Spiritual Temples just
to name a couple. Again, focus on building a good base, then get New
Empires and Piracy.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 2:56pm | IP Logged
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werewolflht65 wrote:
Most of us here regard Piracy as the "Fallen Empires" release of GE.
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Really?
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Biegel
Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007
Location: Christmas Island
Posts: 390
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
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Me like Piracy Me like Bolar Me not play yet
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mostspaceman
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Biegel
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
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Actualy All the series offer some cards that are hard to get anywhere else. I say buy 3 Universe and 1 psy,1 Piracy,2 Timegates ,And 1 primary as there are cards that I never found in Universe in Primary though they did reprint alot of them there are some that didn't make Universe in any regularity
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mostspaceman
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RobPro
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
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I kinda think of PotM as the Fallen Empires of GE. There's pretty much nothing useful in those sets.
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Biegel
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| Posted: 18 January 2008 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
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They got some good card art though.
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mostspaceman
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Peterf
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Joined: 01 January 2008
Location: Australia
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| Posted: 19 January 2008 at 12:25am | IP Logged
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I bought most of my sets from cav. HE IS THE MAN.
Is it worth getting New Empires cards? I'm asking because there is a local source that I can get them from. They're pretty darned hard to find elsewhere.
On another note, is the point of the game to load up on as many high-strength cards as you can? My other CCG based experience is Magic, and at least for that game, you need a high mana supply or a decent lead time to get them happening. GE seems different in that there is no cost apart from ships, characters and bases to play the other nasty cards early. This seems a bit unbalanced, but I'm speaking as a newb. Is this the case?
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 19 January 2008 at 4:23pm | IP Logged
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Your analogy is pretty true with regards to high power cards needing lots of engagement. But you have high level terain which produce enuff for those big ships. But for the high power card from anything but ships and dragons, you can play them anytime. If you look at some of the decks poted on this forum, except for a few exceptions, 75% of the deck is strength 5 and above, some decks are more. This is why many players have 100 plus card decks. The lower strength cards are there just for build purposes.
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 19 January 2008 at 5:51pm | IP Logged
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Peterf wrote:
I bought most of my sets from cav. HE IS THE MAN.Is it
worth getting New Empires cards? I'm asking because there is a local
source that I can get them from. They're pretty darned hard to find
elsewhere. On another note, is the point of the game to load up on as
many high-strength cards as you can? My other CCG based experience
is Magic, and at least for that game, you need a high mana supply or a
decent lead time to get them happening. GE seems different in that
there is no cost apart from ships, characters and bases to play the other
nasty cards early. This seems a bit unbalanced, but I'm speaking as a
newb. Is this the case?
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If you can get New Empires, do it because it is so hard to find. At the
very least you'll get trading stock. You'll get B7 Spiritual Temples, A6
Promotions, R/A4 Genetic Mutations, A10 Techno Sorcerer, and maybe
even an O10 Time Portal if you can get unopened boxes and are really
lucky.
In general, yes, higher strength cards are better than lower strength
cards, but there are some low strength cards that are very useful. Try
to focus your deck on one or two strategies and use simple
combinations of just a couple of cards. A good example of both these
ideas is an M3 Shield Fiend followed up with an O2 Serious Hull Breach.
Those two cards together played on an opponent ship or base will not
only seriously mess it up, but get rid of pesky Admirals and Unit
Overhauls, and stuff like that.
If you can substitute a lower strength card for a higher strength one,
then do so. As an example I made a slight change to my small Indirigan
deck; I had 8 R/L3 Unlucky Targetings in it. I wanted to keep the
amount of luck cards the same (at 20), so I dropped out two of the
R/L3's and put 2 R/L8 Targeting Errors in. They both allow me to
reduce the damage a ship or base takes, but in the case of the R/L8's
they send that damage back to your opponent. A more effective use of
two cards that way.
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Storm King
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| Posted: 13 April 2008 at 7:03pm | IP Logged
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I have an open order with Cav, and I'm trying to decide what to get. I understand your points about the boosters, but I would also need some decks to build from (I'm buying 3 boxes). So, I'm thinking 1 box decks (Primary), 1 (2?) Universe booster, and 1 (0?) of something else. Then again, someone brought up that Primaries have a ton of junk...but will boosters give me enough for deck building? The options are currently series one decks (nah), TG, PoM, German Ed., German gold ed., and Piracy.
Thanks in advance,
Bruce
Edited by Storm King on 13 April 2008 at 7:29pm
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RobPro
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| Posted: 13 April 2008 at 8:41pm | IP Logged
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2 Universe and 1 Time Gates would be good to start. I'd recommend getting as many of those two as you need. New Empires, too.
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 14 April 2008 at 5:16pm | IP Logged
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NO.. not the decks from primary.. they are all the same 50 cards and only one or two of them is considered rare.... complete waste of cash
3 boxes...2 universe and 1 time gates bets deal there.
Edited by Eaglepreacher on 14 April 2008 at 5:18pm
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Galactic Empires : Deck Construction and Strategy
Topic: Help for a Newb, part one.
