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RobPro
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Posted: 17 July 2006 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote RobPro
Would a Mechad Distortion Cannon be able to damage a B1 Pirate Outpost? The Outpost's first text section reads "The only units that may fire at this outpost are police and pirate units." But the Distortion Cannon text says that it is not considered a volley.

I'm putting together a few starter decks to try and get a couple friends interested, I'm going to be scattered some of the rarer cards in, and just want to make sure I've got all the rules down. :)
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 17 July 2006 at 11:16am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
While the Distortion Cannon is definately not targetting the base, it would be considered firing its weapon at it.

So, NO, it would not be allowed to.
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RobPro
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Posted: 17 July 2006 at 4:54pm | IP Logged Quote RobPro
So, generally, when things say "all," do they not refer to things that would normally be untargettable by the source of damage?
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 18 July 2006 at 8:49am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
that is a pretty generalized statement. Unfortunately, i don't think you can use generalized statements in CCGs. Mogwai: I checked the rulebook, and it said, no (see page 93 for more details). ;)
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vuros
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Posted: 09 August 2006 at 9:19am | IP Logged Quote vuros
i would have ot disagree.....to say that a distortion cannon could not affect the base would be like saying that base makes my opponent untargetable.I would play it as being damaged by a distortion cannon, it's following the rules on both cards the base donsn't state it cant be damaged by other units it states i cant target it. hence the argument i'm targeting your fleet and everything is damaged.

Edited by vuros on 09 August 2006 at 9:20am
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MogwaiSC
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Posted: 09 August 2006 at 10:27am | IP Logged Quote MogwaiSC
It seems to me the issue here is the question of what is considered
"targeting" and what is considered "weapons fire".

If I remember correctly, Distortion Cannons are still weapons fired during
the weapons fire phase; they have to be armed during allocation, and are
fired at the appropriate phase during the turn. And, even though they affect
an opponent's entire fleet, the fleet itself is the target of weapons fire. It is
because they have to be targeted that they can't affect the the B1.

On the other hand, if the ship with the DC had something like an E10
Targeting Systems, or an E10 Dark Circuitry, then I'd say the DC would affect
the B1.
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 09 August 2006 at 12:32pm | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
It is because they have to be targeted that they can't affect the the B1

Is this a question? It is because the B1 states that only police or pirates can fire upon it, that the distortion cannons cannot effect the base.

E10 Dark Circuitry
-Damage from the weapons at location may not be reduced or negated. -This unit may damage targets that are immune to weapons fire.

This can be debated. Neither of these rules really conflict the rule on the B1. The B1 simply states that you cannot fire upon it if you aren't a pirate or a police ship. It doesn't reduce or negate the fire. nor does it make the base immune.

E10 Targeting Systems
-The ship or base on which this card is played may ignore the shields or EMF of all targets.

Um, this doesn't have anything to do with the B1.
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MogwaiSC
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Posted: 09 August 2006 at 5:33pm | IP Logged Quote MogwaiSC
Geez... excuse me. I was just brainstorming here... just trying to be helpful.
Next time I guess I should just not say anything.
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RobPro
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Posted: 09 August 2006 at 9:13pm | IP Logged Quote RobPro
Well, I was originally wondering if it was something like an R/O1 Time Skip/Dragon issue.

You can't skip the Dragon, but you can skip the stack with the Dragon. You can't shoot the Pirate Base, but if you shoot the fleet with the base, would it still be hit? I would have thought that logic might somehow of made sense.
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Gekonauak
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Posted: 10 August 2006 at 7:09am | IP Logged Quote Gekonauak
It is a mighty big loophole.
The best thing to do is make a decision on how your group wants to handle it, and stick with that ruling.
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vuros
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Posted: 10 August 2006 at 9:42am | IP Logged Quote vuros

it's all interpretation  the DC targets the fleed not the base, hence when damage is applied it's applied to all bases ships and dragons in the fleet. i didn't target the base but it was within the effect of the DC. the ship that fired the DC cant shoot at the base with any other weapons due to not being able to fire at the base but the DC should affect it. the base dosn't state its immune to damage from other  types of ships just that i cant shoot at it with direct fire weapons.

 
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MogwaiSC
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Posted: 10 August 2006 at 6:52pm | IP Logged Quote MogwaiSC
Hmm... now I think I have to change my mind. I agree with rob that it
should be handled the same as the Dragon/Time Skip issue. Even though
the ship with the DC isn't a pirate of a police ship, the DC does affect the
whole fleet, and is not a volley, so it seems the B1 would be caught up in the
effect because it's part of the fleet.

But Geko is right, each group needs to come to their own decision on this. I
need to talk with the people I play with as well about this.
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vuros
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Posted: 10 August 2006 at 7:24pm | IP Logged Quote vuros
a prefect example is the scintillating dragoness it states is immune to weapons fire,  if the base stated immune to all weapons fire from non police/pirate units i'd have to agree but it says i cant target it hence the DC not targeting the base would still damage it
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MogwaiSC
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Posted: 10 August 2006 at 11:25pm | IP Logged Quote MogwaiSC
Actually, as rob mentioned, the better example is what happens when you
hit any dragon with a time skip. There's a thread here on that which
explains it perfectly.
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vuros
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Posted: 11 August 2006 at 7:23am | IP Logged Quote vuros
thanks for pointing that out Mog and yes thats basicly the example i was trying to get across
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