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Lobo
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Posted: 14 August 2007 at 8:12am \| IP Logged

-Howdy all. Quick question: If i have a ship that produces a command point (once engaged) does the command limit increase on the turn i engage the ship? Or, because engagement comes after allocation, do i have to wait yet another turn to be able to take advantage of the command point?

Thanks in advance, have a good day.....Lobo

ericbsmith
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Posted: 14 August 2007 at 9:31am \| IP Logged

rules wrote:

Point Allocation Phase
- Cards that have point requirements and generate points will generate points if they will be engaged. Cards that modify point output will modify point output if they will be engaged. Cards that will not be engaged cannot generate or modify points.

So, yes, if the ship will be engaged it can provide it's command point on the turn it is engaged. However, note:

rules wrote:

Command Limits, Command Slots and Command Points
- Cards that generate command points only do so in the Allocation Phase. Therefore, a card just played that generates command points cannot use that command point to create a command slot until the Allocation Phase of the next turn.

So, if you manage to engage the ship outside of the allocation phase it will not create a command slot that turn.

Edited by ericbsmith on 14 August 2007 at 9:32am

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Gekonauak
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Posted: 29 May 2009 at 11:02am \| IP Logged

Here is another question on command points...

How many of you are actually effected by them?

Is there even a time where you can't place a ship because you don't have the slot?

How often does this happen?

Lobo
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Posted: 29 May 2009 at 1:09pm \| IP Logged

-When playing either my Tufor or Scorpead decks, i will always be holding a ship in hand that i usually can't play due to command point limitations. Affects me almost every game with those decks. In order to address the issue i usually have to include more crew than i want to, which in turn grows the deck size larger than i need or desire, etc.

I've never had that problem with Filarians, Vektrean, Garshain Reaction or other Indirigan decks though.

Lobo

MogwaiSC
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Posted: 29 May 2009 at 10:10pm \| IP Logged

In our group command points are crucial; all of us have run up against
command point limits and not been able to play a ship or base because of
it.

One of the tactics that's common in our group is to target things that
generate command points specifically for purposes of limiting opponents
playing more ships or bases.

I also am rather fond of playing a C10 Legendary Officer to a T6 Command
Central, then putting an A1 Strategy on him; nets me two more card plays
for the five command points it generates.

Edited by MogwaiSC on 29 May 2009 at 10:11pm

RobPro
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Posted: 30 May 2009 at 6:48am \| IP Logged

This happens. I think the command point mechanic is unique to GE and I'd prefer to keep it around unless you could replace it with something else that does the same thing and is similar.

Blacklassie
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Posted: 30 May 2009 at 11:37am \| IP Logged

The command points in our three man games are more crucial than in the four man games. The larger the game the less command points affect the game.

In our three player games, the guy that gets the command point advantage first (like 6) and can play the ships wins alot.

Have a good day,,,,Dan

marhawkman
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Posted: 29 January 2010 at 11:14am \| IP Logged

How does this work with bases? especially Vektrean Bases.... Are the T/B cards treated as terrain for the purposes of command limits?

My best guess from reading rules v. 2.1 is that they consume a command slot(maybe the free one for a minor race card, not sure there) but can be played even if your command slots are full, "played as terrain"...

which is bizzarre.....

On a semi related question: If a terrain has an engagement cost, can the cost be paid with points it generates or does the cost have to be paid externally?

MogwaiSC
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Posted: 29 January 2010 at 2:58pm \| IP Logged

Search around here for the threads on T/B's... we've argued this over
and over, but the ruling is that T/B's are bases so they do cost
command points/slots. It doesn't matter if you stock them as T's or B's,
they're still bases and therefore add to your command totals.

The only thing about them that makes them special (other than the free
phasers*) is that their structure requires heavy weapons damage and
they can be played on turn 1 because they are terrain for purposes of
being played. To quote the card text they are "bases for all other
purposes".

With respect to the terrain question, engagement is said to be
simultaneous, so in theory it could work that way.

* In the play group that I'm in we're awfully fond of putting phaser refits
on T/B's because they don't have an engagement cost so the phasers
are free.

Edited by MogwaiSC on 29 January 2010 at 2:59pm

ht80
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Posted: 29 January 2010 at 4:03pm \| IP Logged

The T/B9 is played as terrain and terrain do not need a slot so can be played
when no slots are available. Since it has no engagement cost, it can fire the
turn played. Since it generates a command point, it generates its own slot
on following turns. You can play equipment on it after it is in play since it is
a base and a phaser refit played to it could fire on the same turn both the
base and the refit is played.

marhawkman
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Posted: 29 January 2010 at 6:23pm \| IP Logged

O_O' Two very different points of view... From IRC guys....

ht's is kinda what I was thinking. You can play it, but after it's played it consumes a command slot(maybe one you don't have).

What about whether minor race bases can be used for the "free" minor race command slot?

ht80
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Posted: 30 January 2010 at 8:20am \| IP Logged

Quote:

What about whether minor race bases can be used for the "free"
minor race command slot?

No. The rule is very specific in the command limits section. Only a ship can
take advantage of the bonus command slot, a base could not.

marhawkman
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Posted: 30 January 2010 at 11:11am \| IP Logged

Ah, that's kinda what I thought.

MogwaiSC
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Posted: 31 January 2010 at 12:03am \| IP Logged

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear...

HT's mention is correct. To my knowledge we've never required T/B's to
require an open command slot to be played.

marhawkman wrote:

O_O' Two very different points of view... From
IRC guys....

ht's is kinda what I was thinking. You can play it, but after it's played it
consumes a command slot(maybe one you don't have).

What about whether minor race bases can be used for the "free" minor
race command slot?

Gekonauak
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Posted: 01 February 2010 at 10:34am \| IP Logged

Yes, we have battered this subject to death. You should be able to look through the archives.

In agreement to what, has been posted above, it doesn't require a slot to be played, but once it is in play does require one.

Another wrinkle, T/B and all other cards do not produce command points on the turn played. Not until the next allocation phase.

So, you can't have your command full, play the T/B 10, with two command points, and then play another ship.

MogwaiSC
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Posted: 01 February 2010 at 5:29pm \| IP Logged

However, if you had a point/slot free, played a ship, you could then still
play the T/B. On the next turn, during allocation, you then get the
command points/slots and you're covered.

ht80
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Posted: 01 February 2010 at 6:59pm \| IP Logged

Once the ships and bases are in play, they don't need to be covered.

Gekonauak
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Posted: 02 February 2010 at 9:33am \| IP Logged

yeah, if you had a Admiral in play and then lay down three additional ships, but then lose your Admiral, you still get to use your ships, you can even engage them.

marhawkman
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Posted: 02 February 2010 at 7:25pm \| IP Logged

So if you take a ship with "rouge couple" does it count one of your command points? It's not part of your fleet, even though you control it.

MogwaiSC
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Posted: 02 February 2010 at 10:23pm \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

Once the ships and bases are in play, they don't need to be
covered.

Whoa... this news to me... I guess we never read the rules that carefully...
I'll have to remember this one. I predict that of course Galactus is going to
scream and bitch and moan about this one... :-D He he he... :-)

Gekonauak
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Posted: 03 February 2010 at 12:12pm \| IP Logged

Wait, just so we are clear. command slots are just a restriction on playing the card. Once it is in play it counts against your command limit.

Since the T/B is played as a terrain, it temporarily bypasses this restriction (for playing the card only), but it does count against your limit once it is in play.

Gekonauak
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Posted: 03 February 2010 at 12:14pm \| IP Logged

marhawkman wrote:

So if you take a ship with "rouge couple" does it count one of your command points? It's not part of your fleet, even though you control it.

It does count against your command limit. Technically, it is in your fleet, and you can play cards to it.

ht80
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Posted: 03 February 2010 at 5:34pm \| IP Logged

Let's see.

-Only one such card may be in play in the game at any one time.
The rouge couple was a persona before there was a persona set. Note the
waste of space on the card for a rule that was eventually define in a later
set/rule book.

- It must be played to the weakest ship in the opponents fleets.
Fleets is plural so that means all of your opponents.

- Rogue Couple player controls the ship. It looks like the 2.1 rule
book defined control. If you read the section on control, you'll see you
can't take control without a slot available. I'd think someone wrote that
rule to explain how the Rogue Couple worked since it directly applies. I'd
be wrong though, I'm sure it was a number of cards that used "control"
that prompted the rule. I'm pretty sure that rule wasn't in the earlier rule
books.

ericbsmith
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Posted: 03 February 2010 at 7:53pm \| IP Logged

ht80 wrote:

It looks like the 2.1 rule
book defined control. If you read the section on control, you'll see you
can't take control without a slot available. I'd think someone wrote that
rule to explain how the Rogue Couple worked since it directly applies. I'd
be wrong though, I'm sure it was a number of cards that used "control"
that prompted the rule. I'm pretty sure that rule wasn't in the earlier rule
books.

Almost all of the rules I added to 2.1 were taken from official sources, in particular from the Galactic Intercom/Galactic Fire magazines and a few optional rules from earlier versions of the rulebooks that had been dropped from 2.0. I added a few rules that weren't from those sources, but those are clearly marked as optional and/or unofficial clarifications.

I don't remember "control" off the top of my head, but I'd bet it came about sometime after Powers of the Mind with it's Filarians were released. If you didn't limit "Control" to available command slots a Filarian deck could grab almost all opponent ships.

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ht80
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Posted: 04 February 2010 at 4:18am \| IP Logged

By earlier, I meant the primary edition rule book. The rouge couple didn't
appear until power of the mind which needed it's own expansion of the rule
book to work. The control section was probably in the universe edition rules
but I'd have to find a copy of that rule book to be sure.

Gekonauak
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Posted: 04 February 2010 at 9:03am \| IP Logged

yeah, the control rules were added in GF #2 (pg. 16).

So, after Persona, but before Invaders.

I think it had more to do with the Installations than the Rogue Couple, but since we were writing the control rules, we had to address the RC as well.

marhawkman
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Posted: 04 February 2010 at 8:04pm \| IP Logged

Well the installation rules require it don't they? They all have a built-in effect(/game play mechanic) that causes their control to change.

Lobo
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Posted: 06 February 2010 at 6:19pm \| IP Logged

-It's rogue, not 'rouge' Mr. ht80...

Although the Borg that wore makeup in ST 1E were a source of constant anger and embarrassment, this game has the uglier, over-makeupped harlot couple here in GE...

Lobo

marhawkman
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Posted: 06 February 2010 at 7:03pm \| IP Logged

Awww.... I thought they looked cute. :p

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