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werewolflht65
Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007
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Posts: 780
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
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Greets all!
I was looking through the mountains of cards I have now, and a rules idea struck me like a bolt out of the blue.
Weapons fire no longer destroys Terrain! Only card damage (Cards that specifically say they damage Terrain) can damage and destroy Terrain.
What weapons fire does is this: When a Terrain card takes damage equal to it's Strength, it is disengaged for One (1) Complete Turn (ie: No points are generated from the stack, and no special functions may be used).
Every time a Terrain takes it's strength in weapons fire, the structure is PERMANENTLY reduced by One. When the structure reaches zero, the Terrain and all cards on it are discarded Immediately!
So, let me know what you all think.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 6:09pm | IP Logged
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Interesting, but I just think it's overly complex. I'm more or less fine with how it is.
If you throw out all of the house rules any of us have made, but allow proxies, it more or less levels the playing field.
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Tarquon
Exalted
Joined: 02 January 2007
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 7:23pm | IP Logged
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I brought this up a while ago. It has always irked me that any ship with
heavy weapons can blow up terrain - and not just asteroids. You mean 4
HW can take out a reactionary world (my favorite target) but would only take
down the shields on a patrol ship? Also, even totally nuked (uninhabitable)
terrain should be able to support orbital bases. I wouldn't expect any
weapon (other than possibly Sahnadrei's extremely ludicrous weapon) to be
able to totally destroy terrain to the point where it's no longer a location
As for a solution to this, I don't know. Rob's right, keep it simple. I suspect
a change of this magnitude would require significant changes to the basic
gamesystem. for instance, it becomes much more difficult to remove time
portals.
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Drakmoore
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Joined: 24 September 2006
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Posts: 74
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 7:29pm | IP Logged
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Optional rules are always cool, but why not try to make different game types for drastically changed rules? Just cause its one game doesn't mean you have to follow one set or the main set of rules. The fact that so many people can house rule to their taste means that the basic set of rules is working or at least functional. This however makes heavily altered games types a way of spicing it up, they did it in magic with decks like highlander (one of any one card) or play types like emperor. Why not make the Texas Hold'em of GE? Even write mini rule books for them! Some of the ideas people come up with (specially yours!) are really fun and interesting, but just cause everyone might not want them in the basic rules doesn't mean they wouldn't be amazing combined and put under a separate sub-title. Other then that my opinion on the rule variant at present is it sounds fun, but could heavily nerf races based on heavy weapons and make the normal Non heavy races WAY too powerful, not to mention making some custom terrain near impossible to destroy. Although it may be fun to play a "tough terrain" game where most of the battles are focused on ship to ship combat.
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werewolflht65
Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 780
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
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RobPro wrote:
Interesting, but I just think it's overly complex. I'm more or less fine with how it is.
While you may be fine with it, Tarquon does pose a large dilemma: How can a ship withstand 4 points of heavy weapon damage, but a whole WORLD gets toasted?
I'm not saying I think this rule is a grand idea and should immediately be accepted by all, all I am doing is fishing.
If you throw out all of the house rules any of us have made, but allow proxies, it more or less levels the playing field.
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Here we go again with Proxies... Proxies are banned from tournament competition in just about every CCG on the current market. I hate the very notion of a proxy. It took me TEN (10) years to get my very own Time Portal, but not once did I ever consider using a Proxy of it.
CCG's are all about TRADING! If you don't have a card, and you know someone who has extras, open up your suitcase, and make offers.
And don't start simpering to me about the haves and have nots. I was a have not in this game for as long as I have been playing. Now I have, and I make the extras I have available to the other Have Nots (Like yourself) for cut rate prices. Hell, I'd even entertain the notion of trading cards with anyone as long as we can agree on a fair trade.
Speaking of which, I am looking for a half dozen C-9 Admirals and 3-6 T-9 Vek-Ast-STB. Both of which I need in UNIVERSE edition ONLY.
Let me know.
Edited by werewolflht65 on 25 October 2007 at 10:23pm
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 10:26pm | IP Logged
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The game is out of print. I think proxies are a fair solution, considering people only play for fun. It allows everyone to build an optimal deck, to play with the best. Only weirdos like me enjoy the feel of cardboard.
I'm not arguing have or have-nots in the sense that I only need to drive 15 minutes to the store and buy GE singles, but choose not to. Since 2002, I haven't had the opportunity to buy certain promo cards at all since you joined these forums. I started using proxies in 2005. It made the game a lot more fun for me, and the two others who were just starting out in my group. That's all I'm trying to say.
Edit: Oh, I pulled two Time Portals in my first box of New Empires *giggle*
Edited by RobPro on 25 October 2007 at 10:26pm
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werewolflht65
Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007
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Posts: 780
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 10:39pm | IP Logged
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Some people have all the luck.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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MogwaiSC
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| Posted: 25 October 2007 at 11:00pm | IP Logged
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Werewolf,
I may have some of the T/B9's I can spare. Not many though. I'll have to
see.
Email me about the order I've placed with you as well. Just to keep you up
to date about my end of the order.
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werewolflht65
Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 780
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| Posted: 26 October 2007 at 7:00am | IP Logged
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Ok, let me know how many, and we can work the deal.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 26 October 2007 at 3:37pm | IP Logged
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In my want-to- be version of 3.0 galactic empires, for a T8 it would take 8 damage before dropping to a T7, then another 7 to drop to T6. When A planet or system drops below its original strength, shields on the terrain are inoperable until it regains original strength, also, the terrain can not produce more points than its strength. Repair is made by any type of points plus two repair points for extra expenditure. planets and systems are never destroyed but when they reach zero nothing can be played to them eg bases characters etc. My reasoning is O10 planetray destruction should be bout the only thing to completely remove these from the game with the other dimensional cards which allow cards to be removed from play. Heavy weapons can barely scratch a ship, but they can destroy planets.... oh please... but the weapons can destroy factories, farms, energy services all of which reduce production but can be repaired.
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RobPro
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| Posted: 26 October 2007 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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Play a few games with that and post how it turns out. I don't like the idea though, and even my group doesn't like to change the rules that drastically.
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werewolflht65
Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 780
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 7:23am | IP Logged
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HaHaHa! You are such a comedian. Consider you own rules changes:
Reactionary World is a Prototype.
Spy Terrains are Banned!
Marine Recruit Depot stripped of it's abilities!
Please. It makes my restricted list look uber tame. And all I was trying to do was force people away from MDRM decks.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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RobPro
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 8:43am | IP Logged
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All I'm trying to do is balance the game.
My list affects far less than 9 cards. And it's more the spy functions on those terrains are removed, I should change how I've been posting that list.
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 8:53am | IP Logged
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It has always irked me that any ship with
heavy weapons can blow up terrain - and not just asteroids. You mean 4
HW can take out a reactionary world (my favorite target) but would only take
down the shields on a patrol ship?
You are not actually blowing up the terrain, but rather destroying the supply link to that terrain.
If you "destroy" the Corporate Homeworld, can't the same exact C.H. appear on the next turn?
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 9:01am | IP Logged
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Well, maybe. Remember, all the basic terrain were never given Persona Status (Which all the named stuff should have) so if I destroy my Opponent's Corporate Homeworld, and then play mine, all is fine.
But, I tried to push Verc into making all Terrain with a Name Persona, but he balked, citing that it would limit a new players ability to stock a deck.
I disagree but then I hate arguing with him.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Tarquon
Exalted
Joined: 02 January 2007
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 10:33am | IP Logged
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Geko wrote:
You are not actually blowing up the terrain, but rather
destroying the supply link to that terrain. |
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I see many references to terrain damage and destruction in the rules but no
mention of 'supply link'. Geko, where do you get such fiction?
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 10:47am | IP Logged
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Both of you are talking in flavor text speak.
Since only Corp decks can run C.H., I doubt you'll ever see more then one at a table. Unless you have multiple people playing Corp.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 12:16pm | IP Logged
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How else do you explain a planet reappearing after it had just been "destroyed"? And, I just picked C.H. because it was the first that came to mind.
I think if you look in the rulebook, you will see a comment in the description of the game that supports this theory.
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 2:13pm | IP Logged
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As you have pointed out, on some level this is all fiction and trying to make sense of it is pointless. Here's to the windmills!
When a planet sustains structural damage from heavy weapons equal to its strength it is destroyed (by the rules) in the same sense that a planet gouge destroys it or a planetary destruction. I don't see how introducing a supply link concept is meaningful. (Do promo terrain have stronger supply links?)
Trying to explain how multiple identical planets can simultaneously exist in a single or multiple fleets is a whole new topic.
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 2:18pm | IP Logged
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As a dose of realism for the post-armageddon farside I would like to see slightly different rules for different classes of terrain (moon, planets, stars, systems, galaxies, asteroids, nebula, etc).
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 3:05pm | IP Logged
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hey, you are the one who says you were irked by the concept. ;)
I was merely trying to provide you with a "realistic" explanation for a card game based in a fantasy realm.
And, the fact that weapons fire shoots across entire sectors of space doesn't bother you?
Tilting at windmills indeed.
::tongue taken out of cheek::
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Gekonauak
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 3:07pm | IP Logged
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It might be interesting to try the concept of if a terrain is destroyed, it is actually destroyed, not to be used again in the game.
Record keeping wouldn't be that hard. All you would need to do is keep the title of the card visible.
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Tarquon
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 3:31pm | IP Logged
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Yeah, you're right! no more shooting across the sector.
From now on if you want to target terrain for destruction you have to be in orbit (at the location).
Oh, and fleets that engage in battle have to be at the same location too or in open space or use only long range (heavy) weapons. and phasers at the target's location can be used to reduce damage from long range weapons. and cards in open space can't defend the HQ. and ships in the fleet can combine to form task groups. and every large (capital) ship in a task group needs support ships totaling its strength (modified by generated command points).
What else.... Where're my Babylon V game rules?
::still a bit irked but feeling better, thanks::
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werewolflht65
Exalted
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| Posted: 09 November 2007 at 8:46pm | IP Logged
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Ack! No, not Federation & Empire!
Although, I do like the first three ideas. Having an Open Space area where ships can fight, and having to move against a Terrain card to fire on it. AND that ships either in Open Space or in anothers fleet can't protect the sector HQ.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 2:55am | IP Logged
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some of this open space , attacking planets and where and what a ship can attack was one of the concepts in my 3.0 movement, which also dealt with ships(mostly pirates) that could move against terrain stealing its engagement and then I guess in current rules it flies superwarp speed back to the fleet. In 3.0 movement it is risky, as well as ships attacking planets for destruction, since they open themselves up to the enemy by going into thier erritory.
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werewolflht65
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 7:07am | IP Logged
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I would keep the Command point restriction, and go with the Open Space/Your space/Opponent space concept. Basically, you need command limits at each of those locations to have ships in them.
Also, moving a ship from your space to open space requires a card action and ships can only do that once per turn.
Ships in your fleet only guard the HQ, and can only fire on ships invading your fleet. Ships in Open space are free to fire on one another without restriction.
Ships must move against terrain in order to attack it. And bases in play on those terrain are the only units other then ships in that space that can fire on a ship moved against that terrain.
Bases in play can only be fired at by other bases (logic here is that a base has inherent stability, thus it has better accuracy) but can only do so with heavy weapons. Phasers (or Seltzer cannons/Subspace Whips) are limited to same space combat only. They can fire at any and all ships in play against their space.
One other note: Ships in play attacking your space are immune to cards like Temp Correct! That is the only way to make this work.
Thoughts?
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Eaglepreacher
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| Posted: 10 November 2007 at 1:23pm | IP Logged
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yeah question, why would not allowing temporal correction make it work anymore than it does now. The ship or card would have to be in open or opponent space to be "against the fleet".
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werewolflht65
Exalted
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| Posted: 11 November 2007 at 12:43am | IP Logged
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See my post in the Rules section regarding the whole Open Space thing.
Our group nixed it as being overly complex for a card game.
::shrugs:: Oh well... I really liked SFB... Rules binder from hell and all.
__________________
"Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Galactic Empires : News and Misc.
Topic: An Optional Rule with regards toward Terr
