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Lobo IRC
Joined: 04 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 533
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 7:51am | IP Logged
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-Howdy all. In response to a thread below, i'll kick start a discussion about Psy/Vis decks to make them viable. Now i know most here do not play regularly in duels, but if you are to post comments/strategies/designs/etc. make sure to give mention to both formats of play for us folks that have no groups (or no duels, for that matter) to play.
I have recently played against a psy deck and can say that the promo terrain my opponent stuck them on made them darn hard to kill without an overload of command points. In a duel, you just cannot field enough ships sometimes to blow those terrain out without more command points than you even put in your deck. So, although this is supposed to be a Psy thread, i guess my only contribution is:
"if yer playing against a psy deck, bring your ships and some good ol' fashion terrain destruction/hosing cards".
So, what else ya got?
Lobo
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 8:36am | IP Logged
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Are Psi decks really so weak?
Here is the problem with Psy decks:
You first target the Psy directly with weapons fire, then you can target their location with weapons fire.
Giving their opponent, basically, two opportunities to kill them.
In addition to targetting them with weapons fire, you get to attack them with crew. A single Marine can take out any Psy. Also, you can make them insane, sick, etc.
The new promo terrain helped them out greatly, but still not enough to make them viable in anything but a duel format.
Cause, while they are incredibly weak, if left unchecked they can become incredibly strong rather quickly. They can take on many opponents at the same time.
Lastly, you have the fear of the unknown. Most people do not play Psy decks, so most people do not know what they can or cannot do. 95+% of the decks deal with ships. Their defense cards deal with ship combat, making them useless against Psy decks. If my defense was useless against one empire, I would make damn certain that that empire was not around for very long.
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Biegel Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007 Location: Christmas Island Posts: 390
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 9:16am | IP Logged
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Would Ancients have been able to be Psi Allies? If not who could they get ships and foreign tec, shields ect.,from? I never really looked at them as viable though alot of their art was good. I have tons of complete sets of them but they didn't seem to really belong in this game as they were. I always thought they were an attempt to draw the magic crowd.
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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No, the Ancients were not Psy allies. The used generic ships (Ship of the Ancients) with just phasers. I don't think the ships had any heavy weapons.
Although I am not sure, I'm trying to get a copy of the play test cards from Harry to verify. (wolfie, any help would be appreciated)
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Biegel Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007 Location: Christmas Island Posts: 390
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 10:55am | IP Logged
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I thought that the Ancients were to be developed to be a future race.
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 11:57am | IP Logged
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Huh? No, they were the Ancients. An ancient race that left behind the Installations.
Edited by Gekonauak on 04 January 2008 at 11:57am
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werewolflht65 Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007 Location: United States Posts: 780
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
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I'll see him tomorrow, and ask him then.
__________________ "Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Galaktische IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007 Posts: 354
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 2:14pm | IP Logged
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I think Geko summed up the issues with Psy clearly. There are simply too many ways to attack them and they are too slow to develop.
I don't think they are workable in multi-player at all - at least not in a standard, competitive environment.
In a duel, if you customize your deck to inhibit/slow the opponent on the first few turns then you might be able to get ahead and stay ahead. If the game goes long then I think the Psy's are at a serious disadvantage because a balanced/prepared deck will eventually find the 'right' answer.
With that thought in mind I think you need stuff you can play aggresively against the opponent during his first turn. I'm looking for stuff you can get out in reaction to his first turn terrain play. I'll have to look at the cards (its been a day or two) but there should be several reaction cards you can use to 'go off' in the opponents first 3 turns.
What are the rules for aggresively muliganning?
J--
Edited by Galaktische on 04 January 2008 at 2:15pm
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Biegel Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007 Location: Christmas Island Posts: 390
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 3:32pm | IP Logged
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Biegel wrote:
Would Ancients have been able to be Psi Allies? If not who could they get ships and foreign tec, shields ect.,from? I never really looked at them as viable though alot of their art was good. I have tons of complete sets of them but they didn't seem to really belong in this game as they were. I always thought they were an attempt to draw the magic crowd. |
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I was asking on behalf of the Psi's ( How do the Psi's get their ships and equipt?) Are they stuck with Genaric ships? Can they be allied?
Edited by Biegel on 04 January 2008 at 3:37pm
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Gekonauak IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1595
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 3:56pm | IP Logged
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They are stuck with generic ships.
No, they can't be allied. We pretty much wrote them off as a lost cause.
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Biegel Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007 Location: Christmas Island Posts: 390
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 4:45pm | IP Logged
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I guess then to make them viable someone (US?) this group should find a way to give them a minor empire for an Allie Some race that they could relate to . A Way to create stay power that wasn't to powerful but would give them a chance
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werewolflht65 Exalted
Joined: 08 October 2007 Location: United States Posts: 780
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Posted: 04 January 2008 at 9:21pm | IP Logged
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They could always hire the Vektreans? They work for money, and every empire has money, right?
__________________ "Light Balls? You didn't ask for Light Balls. You asked for Light BEER!" Capt. Sergei Fukov, CPP Kalinka
Star Wreck, In The Pirkinning
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Guests Guest
Joined: 01 October 2003 Posts: -157
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Posted: 05 January 2008 at 12:20am | IP Logged
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Time Kinghts would be an interesting bolster to a Psi deck. It would work OK if a case could be made that as psi cards are a type of crew, you could have 1 knight for each 4 psi's in the deck. Roll cybercysts to get around that little command point issue and you have a bit more beef both offensively and defensively.
Even if you had to run a full complimant of crew there are a lot of psi complimentary crew cards you could use. Only problem I see would be where to put them all! Promo terrain would be vital.
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Guests Guest
Joined: 01 October 2003 Posts: -157
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Posted: 05 January 2008 at 12:30am | IP Logged
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My other thought for bolstering a psi deck is to use an extreme amount of hazard, luck, or occurance cards the put your opponents cards temporarily or permanently out of play. H1 Time Warp, R/O1 Time Skip, H9 Dimensional Portal, H9 Tuforeous Dead Zone, L4 or L6 Navigational Error, L8 Vacuum Effect, so many more.
I figure if you can limit your targets each turn you might stand more of a chance. This strategy would only work in a duel environment but if you stock enough cards that can aid you in getting rid of ships, even say H1 Divergent Anomoly just might get you enough shots at your opponents sector HQ for a quick win.
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Eaglepreacher IRC
Joined: 21 December 2003 Location: United States Posts: 573
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Posted: 05 January 2008 at 6:24am | IP Logged
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Hire Vektreans? The only problem I can see with that is you need 4 major empire SHIPS to get one vektrean. Since generic ships don't settle this quota and the psys count as crew you can't have minor empire ships/dragons.
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Biegel Exalted
Joined: 19 October 2007 Location: Christmas Island Posts: 390
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Posted: 05 January 2008 at 7:19am | IP Logged
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Would that that not make a valid reason to admend the rules on this site. This could be done in a suggested alter game if you will,with input from the active members of this site *I am sure we could reach an alternate style to allow this ( at least on a trial basis.) Who knows it could be fun to try?
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Lobo IRC
Joined: 04 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 533
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Posted: 09 January 2008 at 8:41am | IP Logged
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-There's a F1 field i think that is a terrain destruction field. Combine that with occurrences like Comet Impact, Sun Spot, Shipping Delays, etc. for resource denial. The F1 fits nicely into the reserve or the deck proper as you can stock 8 of those things, making drawing one a bit better odds.
If you are worried about needing counters, the lack of Time Skips could be made up by using Luck cards. You would have access to Temp Correction, Twist of Fate, etc for defence, but also could incorporate cards such as L5 Ice Age for furthering the resource denial them.
Just a thought.....Lobo
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