| Author |
|
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 13 May 2009 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
To prevent EVERY deck from being exactly the same some people suggested (okay, maybe it was me) that the most used cards like Miscom, etc. should have been empire specific.
I'd like to further discuss this by creating a list of the most used per category and having your input as to which empire sould have gotten this card, and why.
If there are any cards that you feel that should be added to this list, or, perhaps a card I listed shouldn't be on the list, feel free to chime in.
We shall start with Luck:
R/L2 Phaser Malfunction
R/L2 You Missed Me By That Much
R/L3 Unlucky Targeting
R/L4 Miscommunications
R/L5 Heavy Weapons Backfire
R/L5 Defensive Override
L5 Weapons Security
L6 Artifact - Scepter of Time
R/L6 Distress Beacon
R/L6 Lucky Maneuver
L7 Alien Artifact
R/L7 Anomaly Portal
L7 Artifact - Star Gate
R/L7 Temporal Correction
L8 Artifact - Galactic Prism
L8 Call it Good
R/L8 Demigod Diversion
L8 Frayed Time Spindle
R/L8 Targeting Error
R/L8 Twist of Fate
R/L8 Vacuum Effect
L9 Accelerated Timeline
L9 Discard Equivalency
L10 Galactic Armageddon
L10 Galactic Cataclysm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MogwaiSC
IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903
|
| Posted: 13 May 2009 at 4:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think it goes without saying that L cards are essential in any deck. Can't
say I've ever seen any deck do well without them.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lobo
IRC
Joined: 04 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 533
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 7:11am | IP Logged
|
|
|
-Around one-third of the decks i've made from the beginning have no luck cards in them. When you don't play to win, but play to play you'd be surprised what sort of combos and cards you discover.
As for the empire-specific stuff, i'm not really behind that idea with the game as-is, the cards would need to be redesigned to make that work and the current balance of cards and abilities would be off balance. So the P.O.T. get the R/L2 phaser malfunciton but my empire only gets the R/L5 override? Then i deserve some equipment to balance that out! But hte transfer isn't a 1 for 1 ration on card usefulness, then you have to redesign the whole thing.
Which is really what we are talking about. Good luck in your quest, sorry i could not be of help. I'm still trying to think through my own redesign of this game and thinking of helping a friend revamp Car Wars (card game version).
Lobo, who will never finish his thoughts on paper but at least has a hobby
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 12:43pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
"....When you don't play to win, but play to play you'd be surprised what
sort of combos and cards you discover...."
This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on
this forum....play to play? You have got to be kidding me. Is that an
excuse for poor deck design? "Sorry my decks continuously loose in
competition...but I am playing to play not playing to win? GIVE ME A
BREAK!!!
I use whatever cards I need to when designing an interesting, competitive,
functional deck. Excluding one class of cards simply because you don't
want to be like everyone else is like excluding drivers from your golf bag
because you want to try and hit a 400 yard eagle with a putter!!!
CATCH A CLUE!!!!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galaktische
IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here is a clue for you Galactus1 there are actually people in the world who think differently than you and their points of view are just as valid as yours... :P
Lobo and I are slowly building a play group and I am purposefully building and playing sub-optimal decks. The idea is that I want the new players with smaller collections to both have a chance to win and to enjoy themselves.
When Lobo and I play the games are typically competitive and a lot of fun. We don't always min/max our decks. I have played the same Tranoan deck for months and it has about 6 heavy weapons in the whole thing. When Lobo added R/T2 asteroid shields to his deck I didn't immediately increase the heavy weapon count instead I kept playing the exact same deck to see if I could work around that obstacle.
Sure, we play to win but we like exploring alternative decks and I think that is what Lobo meant when he said "...play to play...".
Finally, a new werewolf! :P
J--
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:21pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Listen here Galaktische....I completely understand the concept of training
newbies how to play and not clobbering them with finely tuned
decks...but to purposely dumb down your decks by excluding key
elements like LUCK cards!!! This is like teaching a gymnast moves but
telling him he can only use one leg! I have over 14 decks designed for
the game...all of which use a host of different card combos to affect
different strategies...but to try and design a deck exclusive of basic cards
like LUCK or OCCURENCE is like trying to design a deck without SHIPS or
TERRAIN!!! Yes I have designed decks without MONSTERS or
HAZARDS...or decks without CREW or without ABILITIY cards....but there
are a basic core group of cards that EVERY deck should include or else
you are just designing decks that are bound to lose every time in
competitive play. A deck without LUCK cards is just a very UN-Lucky
deck!!! MUhahahahahahahahahaha!
:)
Hey...if you have that much time to kill...knock yourselves out....but to me
...it seems like a fruitless endeavor.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
okay, now lets get over all this nonsense and get back to the purpose of this thread.
please.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
And, kindly remember "the object of the game". :)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:32pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The object of the game? Let's see....to CLOBBER THE CRAP out of all your
opponents ....and have fun doing it! :)
Was that the right answer?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galaktische
IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
There are a lot of ways to play the game and if you don't explore them then you're limiting yourself. You can play the game without Luck, Occurrence, and yes even terrain. Sometimes, perhaps most times you get crushed but occasionally you get a eureka! I should point out that Lobo and I almost always play duels which are a very different environment than multi-player games.
Back to Geko's question...
I think making these cards empire specific will change the balance of the game. Is that part of the goal or to just keep all of the decks from looking the same?
As an aside, Galactus1 and I are 'debating' the merits of deck diversity which is what this thread is about after all.
J--
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes, I realise it will change the balance of the game, but the main objective is to not have every deck look the same.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:47pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think deck diversity is a great idea...it's what makes the game more
interesting...and I have spent countless hours designing decks that both
surprise my opponents...and sometimes....KICK BIG ASS!
As far as race specific luck, occurrence and other cards...sure... why not?
Design some new cards and print them up...(like our group is currently
doing) But to limit existing cards that can currently be used by all races is
kind of ridiculous other than for a "house optional rule" or
something....our gaming group would never go for that...the game
already has plenty of ambiguous rules...why add more? Instead of trying
to deconstruct basic rule and card mechanics....why not spend time
perfecting the craft of interesting card combos and maximizing deck
efficiency .....that would be a far more productive use of time in my book.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galaktische
IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
If you're going to change the balance of the game do you have specific set of goals in mind? Do you plan to beef up the Argonians and reduce the strength of the Council of 6?
I think there are some unplayable races (Krebiz, Clydon to name 2) are you going to move the better luck cards to the weaker races?
Or, are you looking for cards that fit well with a race's perceived theme?
J--
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I can assure you....my decks don't look anything like your decks...which
don't look anything like Mogwaisc decks. You need to interact with other GE
groups and you will start to see very diverse deck design strategies.
Hell...there are already 10+ races out there plus allies...I have a killer J'xar
deck that is VERY different from most other decks I have ever played against.
And my crew/ancients/Vektrean/installation deck is like nothing you have
ever laid eyes on...I guarantee it!!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galaktische
IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:54pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I want to know more about your J'xar deck... care to discuss it off-line? I need an edge against Lobo.
J--
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Galaktische, So you think Clydon decks are unplayable huh? Man will I
teach you to eat those words!! I will gladly run my Clydon deck of DEATH
against anything you got!!
Bring it on!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Galaktische wrote:
If you're going to change the balance of the game do you have specific set of goals in mind? Do you plan to beef up the Argonians and reduce the strength of the Council of 6?
I think there are some unplayable races (Krebiz, Clydon to name 2) are you going to move the better luck cards to the weaker races?
Or, are you looking for cards that fit well with a race's perceived theme?
J-- |
|
|
I plan on getting rid of the weaker races, and most, if not all of the promo cards.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galaktische
IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 2:01pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Quote:
| I plan on getting rid of the weaker races, and most, if not all of the promo cards. |
|
|
So, why don't we start there. No sense in us assigning cards to races when we don't know what races are in the game.
Which races are in the 'New GE'?
J--
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 2:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
given two vektrean decks, I understand that they will not be exactly the same, but the goal is to take the core cards that EVERY tournament deck had, and limit them.
I want even more diversity.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galaktische
IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 2:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Galactus1 wrote:
Galaktische, So you think Clydon decks are unplayable huh? Man will I
teach you to eat those words!! I will gladly run my Clydon deck of DEATH
against anything you got!!
Bring it on! |
|
|
Remember Galactus1, I'm talking about duels where your opponent only has you to worry about. These aren't multis where you get to hide behind your <HUMOR> diplomacy skills </HUMOR>.
In my experience the Clydon ships are mediocre at best but please enlighten us. Tell us a few of your Clydon tricks. I'd love to play them. I've met the Clydon artist and I think the cards are great.
J--
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 2:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
please see new thread for races.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lobo
IRC
Joined: 04 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 533
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 2:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
"Excluding one class of cards simply because you don't
want to be like everyone else is like excluding drivers from your golf bag
because you want to try and hit a 400 yard eagle with a putter!!!"
-I play golf barefoot. And the last time i played i used a driver to get a ball out of a sandtrap to see how much sand i could displace. And i had fun. I'm sorry you don't understand that.
Lobo, heading over to fight for the Tufor's right to exist
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
RobPro
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 835
|
| Posted: 14 May 2009 at 11:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I like your ideas Geko. I don't think it comes down to excluding specific luck cards from certain empires, but more making different options available per empire. I had an idea I'd like to share that could fit in here...
Suppose there were 3 different Scorpead Sector HQ's.
1) The base sector hq. 25 points, same as normal, no restrictions
2) 25 points, but you may discard two cards from the hand during the allocation phase to engage (not fully engage) one ship. You may not stock luck or occurrence cards.
3) 20 points. You draw one extra card at the end of each turn. You may not stock crew or bases.
Not necessarily these for scorpeads, per se, but things along those lines. I'd like to see more diversity among the decks for each empire, and I think limits like these would be a good way to start looking into them.
Edited by RobPro on 14 May 2009 at 11:31pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 15 May 2009 at 9:06am | IP Logged
|
|
|
interesting, yes, we did have plans to make different SHQ cards for the empires.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 15 May 2009 at 9:13am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I could tell you....but I would have to keel you....gringo!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galactus1
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: 15 May 2009 at 9:29am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm still having trouble deciding on what race to use to build an A1
primary deck that can stand up to just about anything... too many
choices and not enough cards; I'm card handicapped - I don't have the
100,000 plus cards and $40K investment in this game that Galactus
does... :/
Mogwaisc has a way of embellishing reality to conform to his delusional
world view. (probably as a result of gassing all those primates in twisted
government funded research labs getting his PhD on how to torture
bipedal mammals) :D
But seriously....I have not spent $40K on GE cards...that is a gross
exaggeration. The reality is that I possess superior deck design skills and
I tend to be more patient when playing my deck during a
game....Mogwaisc goes for the throat...I tend to let him hang himself with
his own rope. Winning at this game is not so dependent on what cards
you have in your hand as it is WHEN you play the cards you have in your
hand (sequence of card combos, timing of reaction cards, etc). Mogwaisc
still has not grasped this concept....he still thinks that all you have to do
is put a big ship out and start shooting things...or blow up peoples terrain
and somehow you are supposed to win no matter what. I have routinely
trounced two or more players at a time who have ganged up on
me...NOT so much because I have a better hand....but because I have
learned the timing of WHEN to play certain cards and HOW to play
reaction cards in a way that exploits their maximum efficiency.
AND ONE MORE THING! I think removing promo cards from the game is
ridiculous. There is no reason to remove promo's. I started playing and
collecting this game less than five years ago and I have managed to
acquire every single promo card that exists. They are out there....all you
have to do is look.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 15 May 2009 at 9:34am | IP Logged
|
|
|
their availability is not why I think they should be eliminated.
And, besides, the good ones would be incorporated, not eliminated.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Galaktische
IRC
Joined: 27 June 2007
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: 15 May 2009 at 3:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm looking forward to a re-boot of the game. The old
game is playable and interesting but only just.
I'd like to bring up a subject I've mentioned before. If
you re-boot the game you must institute the concept of
key-words so that an Argonian carrier can just say
CARRIER and everyone know (look up) what it means. That
saves card room and simplifies the updating of rules. If
you need to revise how the CARRIER key-word works you
don't need to reprint or errata the old cards you just
reprint the key-words definition and suddenly all
carriers are updated.
J--
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Gekonauak
IRC
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1595
|
| Posted: 18 May 2009 at 9:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Galaktische wrote:
I'd like to bring up a subject I've mentioned before. If
you re-boot the game you must institute the concept of
key-words so that an Argonian carrier can just say
CARRIER and everyone know (look up) what it means. That
saves card room and simplifies the updating of rules. If
you need to revise how the CARRIER key-word works you
don't need to reprint or errata the old cards you just
reprint the key-words definition and suddenly all
carriers are updated.
J-- |
|
|
Yes, I do plan on using keywords. Similar to the way MTG uses them in the new game.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MogwaiSC
IRC
Joined: 20 January 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 903
|
| Posted: 25 May 2009 at 3:17am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Keywords are essential as they form the basis of any categorization scheme
necessary in the game to divide cards into types, etc.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Galactic Empires : Deck Construction and Strategy
Topic: Dividing up the most used cards
